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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#81

Post by [deleted] »

ekianjo wrote: post #57
ghc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In addition, the White House has put a hiring freeze in place, prohibiting the replacement of open government positions or the creation of new ones while the administration evaluates reductions in the workforce. The White House plans to release a memorandum with further guidance within 90 days. This has drawn criticism from lawmakers as the FAA has been ramping up controller hiring. https://www.ainonline.com/aviati…

Is there an actual reason why the control tower work can't be fully automated? For train control lights we almost don't rely on human operators anywhere.

[deleted]

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#82

Post by duxup »

I sometimes wonder about the value of these news stories on forums and social media.

It's all pretty much wild speculation with several potential causes already mentioned on this forum.

News important yes, every rando with a few shreds of factoids speculating, not so much.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#83

Post by stall84 »

We really can't have this type of accident, a midair collision happen anywhere in the United States, much less the nation's capital, especially considering the Washington area is some of the highest controlled airspace in the country. DCA has been a high-risk airport really since the jet-age, and I have a feeling this might be the end of it as a major passenger airport (at least for Part 121 operations). DOT/FAA are really going to need to step up after this and figure it out, for good. I hope there are survivors but it is really cold in that water right now, look up Air Florida flight 90 for a completely different accident, but in a similar time of the year.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#84

Post by jauntywundrkind »

bfeynman wrote: post #56
whycome wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can get out, they have a chance. There was a crash on the Potomac in January 1982 and there were several survivors. The video of the rescue is pretty crazy. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/from-the-archives-h...

There was a truck that crashed on bridge right next to lincoln memorial and then veered off roadway into bridge, and both were deceased. Its very cold in DC right now and an airplane crashing is much more catastrophic.

It was very cold in DC until recently but it's 45°F right now at 11:21. I was walking & biking around in a sports jacket today with a winter coat strapped onto the outside of my bag.

Best wishes to the victims.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#85

Post by namirez »

ekianjo wrote: post #57
ghc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In addition, the White House has put a hiring freeze in place, prohibiting the replacement of open government positions or the creation of new ones while the administration evaluates reductions in the workforce. The White House plans to release a memorandum with further guidance within 90 days. This has drawn criticism from lawmakers as the FAA has been ramping up controller hiring. https://www.ainonline.com/aviati…

Is there an actual reason why the control tower work can't be fully automated? For train control lights we almost don't rely on human operators anywhere.

How would you deal with all sorts of emergencies involving human pilots? For unmanned aircraft(aka drones) it’s a lot easier to implement unmanned traffic management (UTM).

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#86

Post by stouset »

ekianjo wrote: post #57
ghc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In addition, the White House has put a hiring freeze in place, prohibiting the replacement of open government positions or the creation of new ones while the administration evaluates reductions in the workforce. The White House plans to release a memorandum with further guidance within 90 days. This has drawn criticism from lawmakers as the FAA has been ramping up controller hiring. https://www.ainonline.com/aviati…

Is there an actual reason why the control tower work can't be fully automated? For train control lights we almost don't rely on human operators anywhere.

Trains run on fixed tracks with fixed intersections, and one track might see a handful of them per day.

Planes around airports come in from all directions in three dimensions, and there can be hundreds of arrivals per hour.

These are vastly different scales of problem domain.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#87

Post by Jtsummers »

sigmar wrote: post #71
Jtsummers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness to the current administration, while the hiring freeze may have impacted ATC hiring, that is not causal here. No one hired last week would have been running things today (if they were hit with the freeze).

Someone that was hired weeks or months ago, but scheduled to start last week, could* have been included in the hiring freeze. There's examples here of rescinded offers after doing irs on-boarding: https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2025/jan/executive... (Not that there's information that suggests this caused the incident)

That's not what the hiring freeze EO would have done:

https://www.opm.gov/media/zkebfxow/omb-opm-federal-civilian-...

If someone in your scenario had accepted the offer and was going to start last week, they would not have been included in the hiring freeze and would have been able to start.

> Job offers made prior to noon on January 20, 2025, for which the individual has accepted the position and has a designated start date on or before February 8, 2025. Those individuals should report to work according to their respective designated start date.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#88

Post by theGnuMe »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #59
cryptonector wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://x.com/aletweetsnews/status/1884789306645983319 You see the helo coming from the left on the screen while the airliner appears to be descending. The helo must have gotten in the way (as opposed to catching up from behind). The airliner's lights are unmistakable, so how did the helo pilot not notice them? The airliner's pilots might not have had a chance to notice the helo. Since the helo was crossing an active…

My only thought is that it's a regional jet, so it's smaller than a "normal" commercial flight. At night, if you expect it to be a big jet and it looks small, you presume it's just further away. I think they saw it, saw it small and presumed they had enough time to make it in front of it.

Not many big jets at DCA. Max is typically a 757.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#89

Post by jfengel »

stall84 wrote: post #62

In any event, unless the weather was IMC, where neither aircraft can see because of weather/cloud, which I'm deducing is not the case if they were allowed to maintain visual separation, the ultimate responsibility for maintaining separation is with the pilot(s) .. But as I posted, we should not have this happen anywhere in the United States in 2025 & much less the nation's capital. Hopefully DOT and FAA get to work,…

[flagged]

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#90

Post by tjohns »

Radar replay: https://x.com/avgeekjake/status/1884823071611363833

UHF feed with comms from the military helicopter: https://archives.broadcastify.com/44114/20250129/20250129200...

- 5:41 - AA5342 is given instructions for circling to 33

- 6:45 - PAT-25 reports Memorial

- 7:06 - Tower gives PAT-25 traffic advisory, PAT-25 reports traffic in sight and requests visual separation

- 8:08 - Tower asks PAT-25 if they have the CRJ in sight. PAT-25 again reports traffic in sight and again requests visual separation

- 8:23 - Crash occurs

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