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Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

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Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#81

Post by SkyBelow »

jpt4 wrote: post #76
ItsBob wrote: post #70

Anecdotal but here's how I described using the likes of Copilot to my sceptical colleagues (they were late to the party!): It's like having a senior software dev over your shoulder. He knows pretty much everything about coding but he often comes to work drunk... And that was the best analogy I could come up with: I think it's sped up my work enormously because I limit what it does, rather than let it loose... if that…

If that analogy is remotely accurate, it strikes me as a strictly negative value proposition for the tool.

Depends upon the user. Are you fast (and confident) at evaluating the output and discarding the bad suggestions? This is why I think using AI hurts some developers and helps others, and the usefulness is best for those who already have a good deal of experience.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#82

Post by dingnuts »

skydhash wrote: post #78
ItsBob wrote: post #70

Anecdotal but here's how I described using the likes of Copilot to my sceptical colleagues (they were late to the party!): It's like having a senior software dev over your shoulder. He knows pretty much everything about coding but he often comes to work drunk... And that was the best analogy I could come up with: I think it's sped up my work enormously because I limit what it does, rather than let it loose... if that…

To me, that’s either where a real editor shine (vim or emacs macro) or that’s when you need a metaprogramming capable language.

as a heavy user of vim motions and macros I'm thinking this is one reason I've not found AI code generation terribly useful.

Yes, it's good at boilerplate. But I've spent a long time getting good at vim macros and I'm also very good at generating boilerplate with a tiny number of keystrokes, quickly and without leaving my editor

...

or I could type a paragraph to an LLM and copy paste and then edit the parts it gets wrong? also I have to pay per token to do that?

no..

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#83

Post by qup »

skydhash wrote: post #79
DecoySalamander wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has changed over the years is our expectations and requirements. Sure, you can skip "all the noise" and slap an attribute on your button, but then you'll have to track down another 20 buttons in your codebase that need a color update. You can be smart with your approaches, but at a certain project size and complexity, frameworks are unavoidable. The only choice you really have is to learn an established one or h…

That’s the problem template languages solve. That button could be a partial, and you include it where you want a button. And with grep, you can track it down.

Yes, and then you solve a dozen problems like this, bundle it up, and you've created a framework.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#84

Post by IanCal »

dingnuts wrote: post #82
skydhash wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, that’s either where a real editor shine (vim or emacs macro) or that’s when you need a metaprogramming capable language.

as a heavy user of vim motions and macros I'm thinking this is one reason I've not found AI code generation terribly useful. Yes, it's good at boilerplate. But I've spent a long time getting good at vim macros and I'm also very good at generating boilerplate with a tiny number of keystrokes, quickly and without leaving my editor ... or I could type a paragraph to an LLM and copy paste and then edit the parts it gets…

> or I could type a paragraph to an LLM and copy paste and then edit the parts it gets wrong?

I think there's something you're missing in their description. They're not asking a model to do anything, it's automatically running and then suggests what should come next.

Also in editors like cursor I can ask for a change directly in the editor and be presented with an inline diff to accept/reject.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#85

Post by frogsRnice »

skydhash wrote: post #80
joseda-hg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it important if it's ocasionally hallucinating? It's not like you should blindly throw the code in, you should run it and verify it The more common the work you're doing the less likely it is to hallucinate, plus you can ask it to stick to whatever arbitrary coding standards you want so it's more readable to you, a rewrite to remove a wrong library takes an extra couple seconds per method/function Also it's not li…

That’s why you take a quick glance of the answer, then read the comments. The do a deeper analysis. Take something like 10 sexonds as it seems every real answer I find that’s good is usually just one or two paragraphs.

Yeah I agree- I think the time spent verifying should vary based on the complexity and sensitivity of what you are looking at, but you never really get away from it.

I think my issue with LLMs is moreso aimed at people who wouldn’t have ever done the bare minimum verification anyway.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#86

Post by [deleted] »

jpt4 wrote: post #76
ItsBob wrote: post #70

Anecdotal but here's how I described using the likes of Copilot to my sceptical colleagues (they were late to the party!): It's like having a senior software dev over your shoulder. He knows pretty much everything about coding but he often comes to work drunk... And that was the best analogy I could come up with: I think it's sped up my work enormously because I limit what it does, rather than let it loose... if that…

If that analogy is remotely accurate, it strikes me as a strictly negative value proposition for the tool.

[deleted]

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#88

Post by skydhash »

qup wrote: post #83
skydhash wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the problem template languages solve. That button could be a partial, and you include it where you want a button. And with grep, you can track it down.

Yes, and then you solve a dozen problems like this, bundle it up, and you've created a framework.

The problem with frameworks is with feature/need fit. Sometimes you need something simple and using a framework results in a big percentage of dead code. Or you extend it enough that there’s no longer any benefits.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#89

Post by SunlitCat »

Well, my experience with using an LLM (ChatGPT) for coding in a nutshell:

(asking Chatgpt after getting a very cut together looking example-ish example):

Me: You simply read various examples from the D3D12 documentation and mixed them together without really understanding them? Admit it! :D

ChatGPT: Haha, I admit it, that was a bit of a ‘best of DirectX 12 documentary’! But hey, I tried to build you a solid base that covers both window handling and the basics of DirectX 12.

Re: Using AI for Coding: My Journey with Cline and LLMs

#90

Post by skydhash »

IanCal wrote: post #84
dingnuts wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a heavy user of vim motions and macros I'm thinking this is one reason I've not found AI code generation terribly useful. Yes, it's good at boilerplate. But I've spent a long time getting good at vim macros and I'm also very good at generating boilerplate with a tiny number of keystrokes, quickly and without leaving my editor ... or I could type a paragraph to an LLM and copy paste and then edit the parts it gets…

> or I could type a paragraph to an LLM and copy paste and then edit the parts it gets wrong? I think there's something you're missing in their description. They're not asking a model to do anything, it's automatically running and then suggests what should come next. Also in editors like cursor I can ask for a change directly in the editor and be presented with an inline diff to accept/reject.

I don’t know if you’re a vim user, but what makes people like vim is that once you master it, it’s not about typing and deleting characters. It’s about text manipulation, but live instead of typing an awk or sed script. It’s like when driving a car, you don’t think about each steps like watching the speedometer, verifying the exact pressure on the gas and brakes, and the angle of the steering wheel. You just have a global awareness and just drive it where you want to go.

It’s the same with Vim. I want something done and it is. I can barely remind how I did it, because it does not matter. Something like duplicate the current function, change the name of the parameter and update the query as well as some symbols, can be done quickly as soon as the plan to do so appears. And it’s mostly in automatic mode.

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