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Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

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Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#81

Post by orwin »

poisonborz wrote: post #77
Two4 wrote: post #57

Radical idea: treat mothers as professionals. Train them, certify them, give them resources and support networks, then pay them to raise kids until school age or even beyond. It is a full time job, and should be treated as such if governments want to incentivise childbirth.

Why just mothers?

To be honest, on this I understand what gp mean, I might be sexist for this, but to me decisions to have children is a burden put mostly on the mother (the decision only, not the 40 years after that).

I didn't want any child, but clearly stated that I would support any choice she made, and any children we would have would have my love and support. I don't bear any social pressure to have kids, I don't get pregnant, i don't feel any kind of desire to have children (I used to be a youth camp counselor, my ego about being a role model was well filled by the time I was 25).

Anyway, since the choice is primarily on the mother (as it should be), it stands within reason that the formation and remuneration are given to them in priority.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#82

Post by Agraillo »

Two4 wrote: post #57

Radical idea: treat mothers as professionals. Train them, certify them, give them resources and support networks, then pay them to raise kids until school age or even beyond. It is a full time job, and should be treated as such if governments want to incentivise childbirth.

It's ironic that progress that freed many people from hard agricultural jobs and allowed society to free part of the population from daytime jobs was mostly directed at non-child-bearing categories like children and teens (to learn and study for future jobs) and elderly (to retire earlier than in previous centuries). The age ideal for raising children is also ideal for economics to be a part of it

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#83

Post by Yizahi »

Animats wrote: post #49
j7ake wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free day care is amazing. If that doesn’t make a dent then I am not sure what will. Probably free daycare and relaxing immigration would be best to increase population

> Free day care is amazing. If that doesn’t make a dent then I am not sure what will. France has a subsidy program for kids. It's not helping much. Current fertility rate is 1.85 (2.1 is breakeven). The only thing that seems to work is a religion that keeps women home pumping out babies and taking care of them. Islam and Haredi Judaism do that. There's a Christian "quiverfull" movement in the US, but it's not big eno…

Poland has 0 (zero) tax up to 50k$ per household for families with 4 kids. And there many other benefits afaik. And it is a highly religious country. It's fertility rate is 1.4-1.5.

Industrialized and highly educated populations will not go back to 2.1 and higher, it just doesn't work like that in the current social environment.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#84

Post by Two4 »

poisonborz wrote: post #77
Two4 wrote: post #57

Radical idea: treat mothers as professionals. Train them, certify them, give them resources and support networks, then pay them to raise kids until school age or even beyond. It is a full time job, and should be treated as such if governments want to incentivise childbirth.

Why just mothers?

You're absolutely right, not just mothers should be able to participate. However, the physical and emotional effects and trauma of childbirth are borne by women alone, so they're usually the party that needs to be incentivised. We're also operating within the social framework of Japan, which is deeply patriarchal.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#85

Post by Yizahi »

alexpotato wrote: post #9
jopsen wrote: post #5

Falling birth rates is a problem in most wealthy industrialized societies. Being up a 4am to greet my wife who's been up since 1am with a screaming child. I'm not sure exactly what kind of benefits could convince us that he needs siblings :) Just saying, that while I certainly applaud the effort. I don't see any easy ways to fix the issue: kids are hard work, there are many other things you could do with your life.

This has been parenting for the last several thousand years. I say this not to be flippant or sarcastic but rather to ask how our ancestors seemed fine with the above but we seem less so? (To be fair, I have 3 kids and totally get why your scenario might lower the odds. I'll say that even with the 1am wakeups, the "I love you!" from a toddler is one of the best feelings ever.)

Single person centuries ago was a weird wizard who was probably secretly communicating with a devil and should be exiled from the village just in case. Or he would just die from the lack of help during the illness or trauma. And most certainly he would starve, from not being able to grow food he requires. Those people didn't have an alternative for kids.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#87

Post by msteffen »

dyauspitr wrote: post #68
fuzzybear3965 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weeks? Try years. As a parent of a newborn, I can confidently say that my wife hasn't had a full night's sleep for even one night since the kid was born in early July - she watches the kid at night (we live in a one bedroom apartment with the crib in our room - it affects me, too, but I try to tune it out and focus on sleep, as breadwinner). She also watches the kid all day while I work (9-11 hours). She's drained. I…

I have two kids. After the first 3 months they were sleeping 7-8 hours through the night.

I hope not, three-month-olds are supposed to sleep 14-17 hours a day. Also, what happened when they dropped naps? Night sleep typically worsens right beforehand, as the residual nap pushes their lengthening wake window into night sleep. How did you manage their congestion when they were sick? Many kids, especially those using a pacifier, lose the ability to link their short, 45-minute sleep cycles and need to be comforted throughout the night even into toddlerhood.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#88

Post by msteffen »

Parenting threads always raise my hackles, and I’ve been up since 1:30 this morning with a sick kid so can’t not take this bait.

In my opinion the issue is social, and it’s this: kids are essential to society but, these days, non-parents have little to no experience with kids. They’re entirely unfamiliar with even basic child physiology and psychology or the requirements of adequate childcare at different ages.

Two top-of-mind examples of this manifesting, in my opinion:

- When someone calls into work and says “I can’t come to work today because my kid is sick, I need to reschedule or hand off all my meetings” do they hear “no problem, thanks for being a parent?” or “can you join for just a little bit?” (“I would very much prefer that, but I don’t think you’ll like having a wailing kid on the call. Where would my kid be while I’m joined? Realistic suggestions only, please.”)

Since I should probably make my comment relevant to TFA: most daycares do not allow you to bring your kid if they’re sick. So free daycare doesn’t at all ameliorate this very common and very stressful problem.

- At the beginning of Covid, Google gave extra leave to parents, and non-parents were up in arms (including on HN IIRC. I’ll see if I can find the thread). How about, you can have extra leave if you spend it caring for kids, since the schools are closed, so there’s a shortage of childcare, which is a society-wide problem. I’m confident you’ll find that programming computers is an easier way to contribute in this crisis.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#89

Post by msteffen »

msteffen wrote: post #88

Parenting threads always raise my hackles, and I’ve been up since 1:30 this morning with a sick kid so can’t not take this bait. In my opinion the issue is social, and it’s this: kids are essential to society but, these days, non-parents have little to no experience with kids. They’re entirely unfamiliar with even basic child physiology and psychology or the requirements of adequate childcare at different ages. Two t…

Another great comment noted that historically society made women do all the childcare and didn’t record what they thought about this, which, yes. It was probably always the case that non-parents knew hilariously little about kids, but back then, Mom had to deal with whatever crises emerged while Dad could work like he was single. No this was not fair.

Re: Japan Offers Free Daycare to Boost Tokyo's Falling Birth Rate

#90

Post by [deleted] »

msteffen wrote: post #89
msteffen wrote: post #88

Parenting threads always raise my hackles, and I’ve been up since 1:30 this morning with a sick kid so can’t not take this bait. In my opinion the issue is social, and it’s this: kids are essential to society but, these days, non-parents have little to no experience with kids. They’re entirely unfamiliar with even basic child physiology and psychology or the requirements of adequate childcare at different ages. Two t…

Another great comment noted that historically society made women do all the childcare and didn’t record what they thought about this, which, yes. It was probably always the case that non-parents knew hilariously little about kids, but back then, Mom had to deal with whatever crises emerged while Dad could work like he was single. No this was not fair.

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