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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#81

Post by munchler »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #59
munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

Both may be legal, but the first one is unclear and is definitely unsafe. Safety requirements dictate a slightly different understanding of yellow light than is commonly used by drivers. For safety, yellow must mean "begin controlled deceleration immediately". The first driver had plenty of time on yellow to not be just barely entering the intersection on red. They clearly were not decelerating and had very likely sp…

Again, please be aware that the video does not show the entire intersection.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#82

Post by DHPersonal »

munchler wrote: post #27
xutopia wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One car enters the intersection on red.

That's false. The stop line for cars is out of frame in the video, and the driver has already passed it by the time the light turns red. You can get a better view of what the intersection actually looks like here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/L37hZyvXs8BeWmFE8

I think it depends on what one uses as the definition of intersection. Is it the actual point where the two roads collide, or is it at the stop line?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#83

Post by Salgat »

bedobi wrote: post #2

This is a solved problem and it's astonishing the world hasn't just adopted the Dutch traffic engineering standards outright. It's FASTER for cars and safer for people.

To clarify, aren't these standards mostly relevant where heavy bicycle traffic exists? Do they still apply in areas with little to no bicycle traffic? I'm assuming you're mostly referring to this famous manual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROW_Design_Manual_for_Bicycle...

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#84

Post by simiones »

It's very strange to complain that cars run red lights, but somehow not stop signs. I expect that if the intersection were as empty as it was when he was filming, you'd easily find people driving at a similar speed regardless of the stop signs too.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#86

Post by numerobis »

Ensorceled wrote: post #42
sjg1729 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which standards are you referring to?

They are literally referring to the "Dutch traffic engineering standards" when they say "Dutch traffic engineering standards"

What standards specifically? What is the solution to the problem that Dutch standards provide? Duh

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#87

Post by HPsquared »

CalRobert wrote: post #72
ajmurmann wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of adoption of best practices from other countries is generally baffling to me. When I first visited China grim Europe and saw traffic lights with countdowns (like in the US) I thought we did immediately adopt this in Europe. Cultural inertia and lack of looking outwards is really frustrating.

A countdown on a traffic signal seems like a fun way to encourage drag racing. Though it's nice on pedestrian signals.

Another example of "this is why we can't have nice things".

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#88

Post by cge »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #33
kaonwarb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just rewatched and agree they both entered on orange, which is legal. This clear misinterpretation makes me question the author's take as a whole. Did they consider that cars also regularly run stop signs? Is it possible that this is, in fact, safer for pedestrians, albeit more frustrating while waiting?

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

As far as I know, that is both legal and standard practice in California, and at many intersections with traffic and no protected turn, is in practice the only possible way to turn left: there will simply never be a break in traffic, from the moment the light turns green until it turns red, and so without entering the intersection and then turning on red, it is simply not possible to turn left at all.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#89

Post by gpm »

CalRobert wrote: post #72
ajmurmann wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of adoption of best practices from other countries is generally baffling to me. When I first visited China grim Europe and saw traffic lights with countdowns (like in the US) I thought we did immediately adopt this in Europe. Cultural inertia and lack of looking outwards is really frustrating.

A countdown on a traffic signal seems like a fun way to encourage drag racing. Though it's nice on pedestrian signals.

Crazy idea that would be next to politically impossible in North America: Have every traffic light with a countdown also be a speed camera.

It'd eliminate the incentive to drag race, would give drivers more information earlier allowing better driving, and would generally make speeds limits actually a limit on roads with traffic lights.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#90

Post by bloak »

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

I've sometimes wondered what the exact rule is with red lights. Presumably you're allowed to continue moving forwards if the front of your vehicle passed the stop line before the light turned red. But if you stopped with the stop line passing through your vehicle are you allowed to start moving forwards again while the light is red? (Whether that would be a sensible thing to do would depend on whether you're driving a long vehicle with just a tiny part of it behind the stop line, or a motorbike with just a tiny part of it in front of the stop line, but does the law distinguish those two cases?)
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