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Do It in Jeans First

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Re: Do It in Jeans First

#81

Post by brailsafe »

elliotto wrote: post #57

As someone who has led many high hazard outdoor trips for beginners, poor clothing choices from participants often ruin the day. The guide isn't trying to be elitist, he has likely experienced all of the following: 1) It starts to rain or gets windy and a client was not wearing appropriate clothes and gets very cold in a potentially dangerous situation. 2) A client has worn something extremely uncomfortable and chafe…

Ya, this is the scenario that I think is easy to conflate with the general advice wrt hiking or as a metaphor. It's your job as a guide to set the whole thing up appropriately, and if someone just disregards that it's going to be a liability, especially in a group setting. Everyone needs to respect that what they're in for could be quite demanding and risky.

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#82

Post by polotics »

elliotto wrote: post #57

As someone who has led many high hazard outdoor trips for beginners, poor clothing choices from participants often ruin the day. The guide isn't trying to be elitist, he has likely experienced all of the following: 1) It starts to rain or gets windy and a client was not wearing appropriate clothes and gets very cold in a potentially dangerous situation. 2) A client has worn something extremely uncomfortable and chafe…

I think posting a few pictures of what chafing looks like would clarify the danger: potentially large red burn typically in the groin area, will take weeks to fully heal and be very painful. Or maybe if the hiker really pushed through the pain, it's all that, plus bleeding...

Having one member of the hike, that may not be the lightest, needing to be carried for miles, or maybe hope you can get an helicopter ride...

Don't hike for a day in jeans!

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#83

Post by deanputney »

Aeolun wrote: post #75
elliotto wrote: post #57

As someone who has led many high hazard outdoor trips for beginners, poor clothing choices from participants often ruin the day. The guide isn't trying to be elitist, he has likely experienced all of the following: 1) It starts to rain or gets windy and a client was not wearing appropriate clothes and gets very cold in a potentially dangerous situation. 2) A client has worn something extremely uncomfortable and chafe…

For hiking? I can imagine this applying if you are climbing Everest. Not to taking a walk in the forest.

The hike around the base of Mount Rainier is a multi-day endeavor. Since the author mentions a guide, I’d guess this is what they mean. It requires preparations like shipping supplies in advance- jeans would be a poor choice.

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/washington/the-wonderland...

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#84

Post by mcv »

sowbug wrote: post #11

Similarly, Kevin Kelly says "Buying tools? Start with buying the absolute cheapest tools you can find. Upgrade the ones that you use a lot. If you wind up using something as a tool for a job, buy the very best you can afford." https://www.neil.blog/full-speech-transcript/68-bits-of-unso...

I'm currently in the process of deciding how cheap I want to buy a new tool.

I'm seriously considering buying an airbrush. I still have hundreds on unpainted miniatures lying around (mostly from a Reaper Bones kickstarter many years ago), and although I've had a few painting sessions and got some colour on some of them, there's too many of them to put a serious dent in them. But I keep reading how airbrushing can speed up the process while improving the quality. At least for primer and base coat, and once you're good and you get a really expensive airbrush, also for detail.

But even basic beginner airbrushes can cost $100 for just the airbrush, and another $100 or more for the compressor. But there are also airbrush sets with compressor included for just $25. Crap no doubt, but maybe good enough to try some basic priming? Using it might give me a better idea of what I want in an airbrush and tell me whether it's for me, or it might give me a bad experience and turn me off it completely when a more expensive one would have given me a much better experience. If I'm not sure, $25 is an easy decision to make, while $200 is serious commitment. But a bad experience for $25 might also discourage me from the better solution that would have worked for me.

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#85

Post by mcv »

Reminds me of sailing. I learned to sail at scouting. Every Saturday in spring and summer, kids in heavy steel sailing boats, wearing jeans and blue scouting shirts. If it rained you put on your cheap AGU rain suit and a life jacket (always a life jacket when wearing a rain coat!).

Later, during my student days, I started seeing people sail in specialized sailing outfits with extra high pants that cost a couple of hundred bucks. I always thought that was completely unnecessary. I'm not made of sugar! I can take a bit of water, regular clothes are fine, no need for expensive, specialized gear. In fact, I developed a bit of a habit of sailing in seemingly unsuitable gear. Army boots to bare feet. It all works fine for me.

But here's the thing: at scouting, we only sailed for a couple of hours. If it rained all day, you would still be home dry in the evening. And we were young. You can take a lot of discomfort when you're young. But when you're sailing for a couple of days, maybe on larger bodies of water with higher waves, clothes that are guaranteed to keep you dry are really, really nice. And some people really do need flexible shoes with extra grip on deck.

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#86

Post by saagarjha »

Aeolun wrote: post #77
calmbonsai wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never experienced any deaths on hikes, but I have experienced folks suffering the initial stages of hypothermia (and not realizing it) when wearing jeans on a multi-day excursion when the weather went from dry and sunny to rainy, to icey-rain to sleet. Unwaxed cotton absorbs water, stays wet, and shrinks when wet to make close contact with skin--three properties that one does not want when its wet and cold.

So taking your pants off would work? Seems superior to wet clingy cold pants anyway.

In the cold?

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#87

Post by em-bee »

hilbert42 wrote: post #62

I wonder what reasons the guide gave for not wearing jeans. I don't wear them when hiking for several reasons because they are usually tighter than many other pants and this can lead to chaffing on long walks, especially so if they get damp or wet. Then, as others have mentioned, if they get waterlogged they take seemingly forever to dry out. My usual remedy is to wear army BD cargo pants, they're roomy and comfortab…

second hand army gear was always my goto for hikes and traveling in general. no need to verify whether the clothing was suitable, because, while there may be even better gear out there i can trust that army gear is most certainly not unsuitable. it's cheap and also already worn in so you avoid issues that you sometimes get with brand new clothing

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#88

Post by pacifika »

mvdtnz wrote: post #56
paulcole wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But safety should always come first. No it shouldn’t. Safety is almost always a trade off of real (or perceived) risk and reward. If safety came first, you’d never swim, hike, or drive a car.

I agree with you completely. My country has an out-of-control safety culture that has many unintended effects. For example we are one of only a handful of countries on earth with a cycling helmet law. As a result, fewer people cycle and drivers take less care around cyclists. Lots of studies have shown that at a population level it's quite possible helmet laws have a negative impact on health and safety. I am current…

Soccer players would benefit from wearing helmets though, but they don’t.

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#89

Post by elliotto »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #73
elliotto wrote: post #57

As someone who has led many high hazard outdoor trips for beginners, poor clothing choices from participants often ruin the day. The guide isn't trying to be elitist, he has likely experienced all of the following: 1) It starts to rain or gets windy and a client was not wearing appropriate clothes and gets very cold in a potentially dangerous situation. 2) A client has worn something extremely uncomfortable and chafe…

So that leaves us with the following approximate advice, "Skip anything extra that's uncessary, unless it is actually necessary, and make sure to know the difference." Easy!

I would argue that knowing what is necessary and what isn't is the fundamental claim of engineering and isn't reducible to a pithy aphorism.

Re: Do It in Jeans First

#90

Post by elliotto »

Aeolun wrote: post #75
elliotto wrote: post #57

As someone who has led many high hazard outdoor trips for beginners, poor clothing choices from participants often ruin the day. The guide isn't trying to be elitist, he has likely experienced all of the following: 1) It starts to rain or gets windy and a client was not wearing appropriate clothes and gets very cold in a potentially dangerous situation. 2) A client has worn something extremely uncomfortable and chafe…

For hiking? I can imagine this applying if you are climbing Everest. Not to taking a walk in the forest.

If you show up to my 140 km multi day trip in jeans you get left at the car and not permitted to come to another one. If it's a long day hike you get left at the car but a second chance. If it's a short day hike (but still worthy of a guide) you put on the spare pants in my car.
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