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uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

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Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#81

Post by InsideOutSanta »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #12
max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

The bad pushes out the good until you’re only left with bad. A system that tolerates bad actors like this will in time only have bad actors. It’s tolerated because it makes a large amount of money for a small number of people.

This. Allowing bad actors to participate in a system allows them to externalize costs, which makes them more competitive than good actors. In human relationships, this behavior is punished by excluding bad actors from social relationships (i.e. the "no assholes" rule).

That does not work for corporations, because most people who are customers of these corporations are unaware of the corporation's bad behavior, are unable to avoid the corporation's products, or are stuck with a choice between bad options.

The main solution is regulation, oversight, and legal action, but the first two of these are unlikely to be enacted in the US in the current political climate. The Biden administration made some steps towards stronger regulation (e.g. by putting Lina Khan in control of the FTC), but received little to no political benefit from it and probably harmed fundraising for the Democrats.

Legal action is often prevented by arbitration clauses or disparate funding, where it is financially untenable to restrain bad actors using legal action.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#82

Post by RobotToaster »

moonshadow565 wrote: post #46

I don't think you can copyright lists of publicly available information (iirc there was some case with phone numbers before). That being said, they also stole code...

Depends on the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_right

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#83

Post by alsetmusic »

This isn’t the first time they’ve been accused of shady practices.

> MegaLag also says Honey will hijack affiliate revenue from influencers. According to MegaLag, if you click on an affiliate link from an influencer, Honey will then swap in its own tracking link when you interact with its deal pop-up at check-out. That’s regardless of whether Honey found you a coupon or not, and it results in Honey getting the credit for the sale, rather than the YouTuber or website whose link led you there.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/23/24328268/honey-coupon-co...

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#84

Post by twostorytower »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #2

If any software ever deserved being sued into non-existence it is the Honey browser extension, and any other scam software they turn out (Pie Adblock in this case). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4yL3YTwWk

This video is just rage bait and weaponizing creators and their fans by singling out Honey and not providing any additional context. Anybody in the affiliate industry knows how last click attribution works. This isn't new or specific to Honey. CapitalOne Shopping, Rakuten, RetailMeNot...they all work the same way. Merchants partner with these shopping extensions knowing how they work, nobody forces them to do so.

The affiliate networks (CJ, Impact, etc) are the ones who determine what attribution method to use, shopping extensions just comply. The vast majority of shopping sessions don't have any prior attribution and merchants fund all of these commissions (nothing is taken from a creator or a user). Yeah, it does seem like the codes Honey has have gotten worse in recent years, probably just a consequence of PayPal acquiring them and not giving it any attention (and layoffs). But the example MegaLag points out of finding a better code on a coupon website DOES THE SAME THING AS HONEY (overides the attribution).

So are there some problems with the affiliate industry? Probably. But calling Honey a "scam" seems completely unfair and lacks critical thinking. It's saved me thousands of dollars over the years.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#85

Post by maxloh »

moonshadow565 wrote: post #46

I don't think you can copyright lists of publicly available information (iirc there was some case with phone numbers before). That being said, they also stole code...

Moreover, it doesn't seem like static linking to me.

A similar example would be using a GPLv3 licensed JavaScript library in a website. What it implies to other HTML/JS/CSS code is controversial [0]. The FSF actually believed that they should not be "infected" [1], and the legal implications may need to be tested in court.

[0]: https://opensource.stackexchange.com/q/4360/15873

[1]: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#WMS

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#86

Post by nox101 »

api wrote: post #17
max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

Most do, but the scammers and hustlers often win. When you're scamming and hustling you don't have to do the real work, which means you can spend 100% of your time and energy marketing and you win there. I'm deeply pessimistic about the future of open source. A lot of people are going to give up on it as it becomes clear that it's just free labor for SaaS companies and hustlers. That and I expect far more supply chai…

I get all kinds of free open source and contribute. I don't care that people or big corps make money off my contributions.

I get linux for free, an entire OS. Tons of giant companies contribute to it. I get llvm and clang mostly paid for by giant companies. I get python, go, node paid for by giant companies. I get free hosting for open source projects and free CI (github) paid for by giant companies. I get free frameworks (React, Flutter). Free languages, free libraries, etc...

My open source is just part of that. Contributing back to all the free stuff I get, much of it from giant companies.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#87

Post by consumer451 »

max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

"No conflict, no interest" is a common saying in investor circles, or so I have heard.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#88

Post by twostorytower »

alsetmusic wrote: post #83

This isn’t the first time they’ve been accused of shady practices. > MegaLag also says Honey will hijack affiliate revenue from influencers. According to MegaLag, if you click on an affiliate link from an influencer, Honey will then swap in its own tracking link when you interact with its deal pop-up at check-out. That’s regardless of whether Honey found you a coupon or not, and it results in Honey getting the credit…

[flagged]

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#89

Post by moonshadow565 »

RobotToaster wrote: post #82
moonshadow565 wrote: post #46

I don't think you can copyright lists of publicly available information (iirc there was some case with phone numbers before). That being said, they also stole code...

Depends on the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_right

Thanks for the list! It seems that unfortunately copyright applies to databases in EU.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#90

Post by dmazzoni »

max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

How do you propose a company like Honey should make a profit without deception and scams?

Their product is supposedly: install a FREE extension and you get discount codes applied for you at retailers when you check out.

It turns out they were able to be profitable by making themselves the affiliate every time you purchase something, but that's scammy because it's stealing from others who actually generated the referral.

But what other non-scammy business model could they have? There's basically no business model for what they're trying to offer that makes sense other than end-users paying for it.

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