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There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

benrady.com

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Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then what is a way to do it? The text gives an example to the core problem, and to argue differently requires thinking around it. In practice. I’ve seen many attempts at measuring productivity, but once you dig into them, you see they are just abstraction mechanisms above something that is similar to lines of code. I have yet to see an idea that sidesteps the core issue described in this post. Also, it applie…

Happy Customers. All other measures are a proxy for happy customers. Actually, happy customers is also a proxy (the real measure is profits) but measuring profits directly (in the short term) can lead to decisions that have adverse long term effects. It's too easy to increase profits in the short term by avoiding long-term expenses. So, if you're in the business of software, the goal is happy customers. (And I use th…

Arguably the business is aiming for Paying Customers, not necessarily Happy ones :)

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#82
post #78
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, the opposite side seems equally absurd to me. Do you work at a software company? Do you have coworkers? Are you honestly telling me that, gun to your head, you couldn't say that some are more productive and some are less? That if you had to choose a co-founder for your next startup, that you would have NO idea where to begin, that any of them would be equally as good as the next?

I mean look, some people seem to be extremely productive, and sure, I could say that those people are almost surely more productive than others. It's still genuinely very hard to quantify if those people are actually vastly more productive, or if it just looks like that because they produce more obvious artifacts of their productivity. Hell, what is productivity, is it more productive to fix 1000 bugs or to be the te…

How would you choose a cofounder? I would call whatever metric you use to determine "would that person be a good cofounder" productivity. (OK, sure, let's narrow it down and say that you were tasked with choosing a purely technical cofounder; perhaps in this hypothetical you're helping your non-technical friend find one?) Do you still believe you couldn't do better than chance?

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then what is a way to do it? The text gives an example to the core problem, and to argue differently requires thinking around it. In practice. I’ve seen many attempts at measuring productivity, but once you dig into them, you see they are just abstraction mechanisms above something that is similar to lines of code. I have yet to see an idea that sidesteps the core issue described in this post. Also, it applie…

Happy Customers. All other measures are a proxy for happy customers. Actually, happy customers is also a proxy (the real measure is profits) but measuring profits directly (in the short term) can lead to decisions that have adverse long term effects. It's too easy to increase profits in the short term by avoiding long-term expenses. So, if you're in the business of software, the goal is happy customers. (And I use th…

It’s demand. How much demand is there for your product

As the other commenter pointed out, happy customers means nothing if they aren’t actively paying you

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#86
post #82
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean look, some people seem to be extremely productive, and sure, I could say that those people are almost surely more productive than others. It's still genuinely very hard to quantify if those people are actually vastly more productive, or if it just looks like that because they produce more obvious artifacts of their productivity. Hell, what is productivity, is it more productive to fix 1000 bugs or to be the te…

How would you choose a cofounder? I would call whatever metric you use to determine "would that person be a good cofounder" productivity. (OK, sure, let's narrow it down and say that you were tasked with choosing a purely technical cofounder; perhaps in this hypothetical you're helping your non-technical friend find one?) Do you still believe you couldn't do better than chance?

Well, a lot of the factors explicitly have nothing to do with general productivity at all, such as alignment. The goal with regards to selecting for productivity would be "someone who seems productive enough" but getting hung up on exactly how productive feels like a mistake, as aside from being unquantifiable, that isn't going to be the only or probably even main factor that decides the fate of the endeavor. Productivity is not the most challenging problem in software development. In my opinion, as far as factors for success for a technology endeavor goes, even overall technical competence winds up factoring in fairly low at the end of the day. What's important is meeting the threshold you need, not getting as high of a score as possible.

I should clarify that I actually agree with you if what you're saying is that the best measure of productivity we have is literally just going off your gut, but my argument is that this gut feeling is terrible. This is in large part because humans are biased, our gut feelings are swayed by things that simply shouldn't factor in. We tend to have more positive opinions of people that we think are like us and we sometimes wind up having negative opinions of someone based on stupid things like disagreeing with them on something that is ultimately irrelevant to whether or not they are productive.

And to me, the ultimate nail in the coffin is really in the question of what really constitutes productivity. Productivity is supposed to measure the efficiency of producing something, which already has pitfalls in and of itself when dealing with things that do have discrete, measurable indicators of progress, but programming doesn't, it's not even always obvious if progress is forward or backward sometimes. What's most important, performance optimizations, disaster planning, features, robustness, minimizing resource utilization? The best answer you can generally say is "It depends," and moreover, everyone will have a different set of competencies they're best at, so a person doesn't really have some single "productivity value" you could summarize them with. Yet, all of those things are pretty important for any serious technology organization, so you would want people with a variety of different affinities.

At that point, it starts to beg the question of whether or not attempting to directly measure software productivity is a worthwhile endeavor. I'd argue not.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#87
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't seem to struggle, as others claim to, in measuring productivity. Because you are measuring at a very broad and basic level. Steve is more productive than Susan. Great. How much more productive? Can you turn it into a number? Can you still do it consistently when Steve and Susan are in different teams in different parts of the organisation trying to achieve different goals? I've done DB upgrades that to…

> Great. How much more productive? Can you turn it into a number? This is moving goalposts. OP's argument was "There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity", not "You Can't Convert Software Productivity into a Floating Point Number With 3 Decimals of Accuracy."

There’s no real dependable/reproducible single linear measure of software productivity”.

Would that be a fairer assertion?

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#88
post #57
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it kind of massages our ego, like yes, they can measure other sorts of productivity, but not ours, oh no, we're too complex and intelligent, there's no way to measure the deep sorts of work that we do! Which, yes, OK, we're not exactly bricklayers, but surely, if you had to, you could do better. Productivity is not a cut-n-dry stat for any kind of knowledge work. For an admin, we could say they were more productive…

Sure, productivity it's not cut-n-dry stat, but it's not completely impossible to measure either. For a team, there are very clear goals: to make product that customers like, and to keep improving it for a long time. The last part is especially hard to measure, so people do all sorts of approximations, some very bad. For individual, productivity is measured on multiple axis - new long-term features, throw-away and pr…

For a team, there are very clear goals: to make product that customers like, ...

With respect, that goal is far from clear. How do you measure how much they like the product? Have we achieved more "likes" this sprint than last?

Customers like a product because it removes their problems. QED.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#89
Isn't this whole debate a repeat of the old talking point about what is value? Labour theory of value, that kind of thing?

This is simply never going to end if carried on along the lines of this article, or along the lines of most of the comments here.

There's no way to objectively and reasonably put a value on something.

All we have is a theory of subjective value, which does a bit of handwaving about utility and works out some ways where we can come to a price, regardless of the fact that the values in peoples' heads are subjective.

Thus the distinction between knowledge work and "tangible work" like bricklaying is actually a moot point. Yes, you can measure "productivity" of bricklaying in metres per day, but ultimately you care about value, not amounts of wall.

The arguments about one guy definitely being more productive than another are similar. One person values speed, another values maintenance costs downstream. It is subjective what ought to be more important.

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