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Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

archaeologymag.com

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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#81

Post by loudmax »

foobarian wrote: post #62
bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

Speaking of history podcasts, I've gone through Mike Duncan's Rome and Revolutions, the Fall of Civilizations, Dan Carlin's Hardcore Histories... any suggestions for more like this? I noticed there is a Byzantium history series that seemed interesting.

The History of English podcast is worth a listen. It's about the development of the English language, so it covers a lot of history and prehistory, and also linguistics. The presenter Kevin Stroud has a deep passion for the subject matter. Unfortunately, he also has a tendency to repeat himself and over-explain simple examples so the effect can be somewhat soporific.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#82

Post by emmelaich »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #37
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a participant in a number of somewhat "modern" Christian traditions, I think one factor is that we have changed quite a lot and then some strands of the faith have decided to go back into the past and seek what we lost from the early days. One example being certain rock'n'roll churches where people stick their hands up in the air while singing and praying: I heard one pastor defend this as being "this is…

Thing is, Christianity is (should be? idk) based on the teachings of Jesus which separated from Judaism; on prayer and worship, the New Testament has teachings like: > Matthew 6:5-14 > 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go in…

FWIW, this has changed a lot. Catholic churches built in the last 50 years are far more austere than those built earlier.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#84

Post by NemoNobody »

aziaziazi wrote: post #32
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in the Bible that describes the practice they promote. Sure, there is a claim that people who are filled with the Holy Spirit will not die if bitten by snakes, but no description of it being used as a ritual practice and you could claim it contradicts “do not put the Lord God to the test”. I have no idea if there is extra-biblical evidence for people doing that in early churches, and whether those ch…

Im going to cite (slightly shorten) Wikipedia. I have no competency to understand the sources and fact check but I though it’s quite interesting. > In the 2nd century the Ophites reportedly handled snakes during their services, and also worshipped the serpent. > The Ophites […] were a Christian Gnostic sect. > Gnosticism […] is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD amon…

Gnosticism is a bit of a catchall - the Ophites were a sect or branch and not by any means the standard - it's difficult to say there is an established "Standard Gnostic Theology" as there really isn't, there are some common deviations from modern Christianity that rendered them more similar thru a modern lens than they may be, tho they are some common Gnostic themes, like self awareness but snake charming isn't one.

That said, snakes have been widely deified thru out history by various cultures and beliefs.

Prior to Christianity the god Tiamet would have been widely known and had been so for hundreds of years. It is common practice for a religion to take the previous god and render them the "bad guy" in their new religion - that could also have been done to the Ophites as the Gnostics were essentially erased by the Church and what little remains the establishment said about them has been rendered sus by what we have found recently of OG Gnostic texts.

You have to realize, by 400 - saying someone handles snakes during their church service was a kin to saying they are a satanic cult.

That said - Gnostics would handle snakes if they wanted or needed to and they would be fine bc that is the faith they preached, a faith of action. Step onto the water - you will not sink of you do and have faith already, no more is needed in the moment, no assistance from Priest or higher power.

Christianity adopted the faith of Paul - the apostle not chosen by Christ, and became people that wait in their beliefs, faithfully waiting for God.

Huge difference.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#85

Post by cogman10 »

bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

Data over dogma is a pretty good podcast about Christianity and Judaism. It's mostly about taking Bible stories and putting them into their historic context with the best evidence we have.

It's not about converting, just covering the history.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#86

Post by kibwen »

papandada wrote: post #66
wolfhelius wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a long drive where I listened to The Great Courses, which had a set on early Christianity. I think the professor was from Notre Dame. The early church was wrestling with polytheism (is the OT god seemed really different from the NT god) and it eventually had to get resolved by the Council at Nicaea at Constantine's behest.

I've never heard anyone say the early church wrestled with polytheism. Maybe that's my bias nestled in Christian circles of not using that word, in favour of something more like "the nature of the triune Godhead", etc.

Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.)

Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a polytheistic practice in its own right.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#87

Post by throaway2501 »

noworriesnate wrote: post #58
vitus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably that's a reference to the GP describing "Messianic Jewish". (or rather, Messianic Judaism) > It considers itself to be a form of Judaism but is generally considered to be a sect of Christianity,[2][3] including by all major groups within mainstream Judaism, since Jews consider belief in Jesus as the Messiah and divine in the form of God the Son (and the doctrine of the Trinity in general) to be among the m…

So are they claiming that Messianic Jews are not actually Jews? Because they implied that people were falsely taking the title Jew if I understood them correctly. That would be the first time I've ever heard that particular assertion.

Israel doesn’t allow Messianic Jews to be citizens for this reason.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#88

Post by mistrial9 »

emmelaich wrote: post #83

Related, for those interested in the history of religions and Christianity: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-the-rise-of-chr...

> a lot of male cult members join because the cult has hot girls. This seems to have been a big factor in the spread of early Christianity as well.

well, that explains it then

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#89

Post by af78 »

markovs_gun wrote: post #15
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #3

Fascinating from both a technological and theological/ecclesiological perspective. I'll be sure to pass this on to some of my faith-filled friends who now live south of the Alps but have roots in the same region. > inhumation burials — a practice uncommon in other Roman cemeteries in Frankfurt To save others looking it up: "inhumation burial" seems to be a technical term in the field for what we simply call "burial",…

> I'm not sure if this pre- or post- dates the Jewish tradition of replacing the Name with "Adonai" (Hebrew for "Lord") or its Greek/Latin equivalent, That taboo already existed even before the New Testament was written. The Septuagint, an early Greek translation of the Old Testament, was written around 260 BC and uses this convention, translating the Lord's name as "kyrios"- "Lord." The authors of the New Testament…

> I notice that the Latin of this inscription is very messy

To a modern eye (like mine), other examples of Roman cursive look hard to read as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_cursive

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