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"Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

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Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#81
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tempted to try the new Intel GPU as an upgrade for my current ~5yo build. I don’t need something high end, and I don’t need any AI stuff. But I use a dual boot Windows/Linux, and I am a bit worried about how it will behave under Linux.

Intel is by far the best out of the box experience under linux. I have 3 cards. I will get one of the new battlmage cards for my gaming pc. Edit: the only downside is that the hw h265 encoder is pretty bad. Av1 is fine though

I was reading that Intel GPU firmware cannot be upgraded under Linux, only Windows, is that still the case?

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#82
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add nvidia sales are 90% data center and 10% gaming, and the author being part of the 10% who wasn't abandoned is complaining they got a product at half the speed, way lower price, instead of half the price same specs as the datacenter client man.

Or the 90% are charged absurd markup because clearly they can deliver the hardware for 10% use-case for 1000$ and still make money on top but they would rather charge the data centers 50k for the same product

Or they can't afford to sell the cards at consumer prices. If they take a loss in the consumer segmet, they can recoup by overcharging the datacenter customers.

That's how this scheme works. The card is most likely not profitable at consumer price points. Without this segmentation, consumer cards would trail many years behind the performance of datacenter cards.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#83
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tempted to try the new Intel GPU as an upgrade for my current ~5yo build. I don’t need something high end, and I don’t need any AI stuff. But I use a dual boot Windows/Linux, and I am a bit worried about how it will behave under Linux.

Intel is by far the best out of the box experience under linux. I have 3 cards. I will get one of the new battlmage cards for my gaming pc. Edit: the only downside is that the hw h265 encoder is pretty bad. Av1 is fine though

What does a "pretty bad" h265 implementation look like? Buggy? Inefficient or what?

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#84
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-waste is mostly a fake concept. By the time a 4090 has outlived its usefulness for gaming it's also likely that no one wants it for AI (if they ever did).

Aren't you giving a good reason why its not a fake concept there?

Nope. Putting electronics in landfills simply isn't that harmful.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#85

It's interesting how we the people (broadly) accept this practice in software and even some hardware, but not in other areas. Note how frustrated people are when you hear about "unlocking" sensors and services available on cars. If a product is made, and the cost to provide that product is the same one way or the other but you cripple it to create segmentation, then that is greed. Period. Objectively. And if you're o…

Maximization of profit is what all companies do. For publicly traded companies, it is considered a duty to their shareholders and not doing so will result in executives getting booted out and even lawsuits.

With that out of the way, market segmentation is often good for budget customers, who, in the case of Nvidia GPUs, are gamers. They get GPUs that run their games just as well as the uncrippled model, for a much lower price. Without market segmentation, all the GPUs would go to Amazon, Microsoft, Google, etc... since they are the ones with the big budget, gamers will be left with GPUs they can't afford, and Nvidia with less profits as they will lose most of the market for gamers.

With market segmentation, Nvidia wins, gamers win, AI companies and miners lose. And I don't know about you, but I think that AI companies and miners deserve the premiums they pay.

It sounds stupid to pay for crippled hardware, but when buying a GPU, the silicon is only a small part of the price, the expensive part is all the R&D, and that cost is the same no matter how many chips they sell, and it makes sense to maximize these sales, and segmentation is how they do it without sacrificing their profits.

Of course, should AMD or Intel come back, they would do their own market segmentation too, in fact, they already do.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you giving a good reason why its not a fake concept there?

Nope. Putting electronics in landfills simply isn't that harmful.

Okdokie well not really going touch that bit, but just still want to point out that the way you have it written it sounds like the second claim is an argument for the first and it makes it a little confusing.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#88

Between EVGA getting out of the Nvidia card business, Nvidia continuing to be problematic under Linux (even if that’s improving), all the nonsense with the new power connector, and the company’s general sliminess, I’m increasingly leaning towards an AMD (or potentially Intel) card for my next tower upgrade. AMD and Intel might only be competing in the entry-to-midrange market sector but my needs aren’t likely to exce…

I wish I could say that was a realistic alternative for compute work (and on workstations and servers rather than consumer PCs). Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it - both in terms of the hardware offering (AFAICT), and ecosystem richness. Which is really a shame; not because AMD are saintly, but because NVIDIA have indeed indeed been slimey and non-forthcoming about so much, for so long.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#89
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they have to do that to server different segments. how would you price a 4090 that can be used for crypto, gaming, ai, cad, video editing if you were to discover that is cheaper to create the same chips for all of them, but the segments are really different, 90% coming from datacenter and 10% from gaming we're lucky they still do gaming by limiting the datacenter chips it's like getting a ferrari speed limited for us…

They just shouldn't do that. If they can afford to sell the Ferrari for $20k, they should do so. To everyone who wants one, for whatever reason.

I disagree, and this line of thinking is positively dangerous.

Just because Ferrari might be capable of making that car for $20k, I don't have a fundamental right to demand it from them any more than I have a fundamental right to demand that you make me a sandwich right now for $5.

> they can afford

Before using the word "they" in a prescriptive sentence, think about whether you could substitute "I" and you would still be happy with it.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#90

This is why Nvidia needs competition. I love the performance of their hardware and the quality of their drivers, but I don't love being their customer. They have a long, long history of price discrimination using techniques like this. Back in the day it was "workstation" graphics for CAD programs that they would nerf for consumer cards by downgrading various features of OpenGL. Different markets, same techniques. It'…

Their former competition wasn't any different. I still remember ATI/AMD pencil mods to unlock things they disabled.
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