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Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

the-scientist.com

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Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#81

Post by dekhn »

divbzero wrote: post #11

> The trouble with mirror cells is that they could probably evade most of the barriers that keep ordinary organisms in check. To fight off pathogens, for example, our bodies must first detect them with molecular sensors. > Those sensors can only latch onto left-handed proteins or right-handed DNA and RNA. A mirror cell that infected lab workers might spread through their bodies without triggering any resistance from…

Antibodies can bind to wrong-handed antigens, but an antibody to a correct-handed antigen would not automatically bind the mirror. I'm not finding a lot of literaturee about this, however.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#82

Post by dekhn »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #13
harimau777 wrote: post #10

How does a research ban even work? It seems to me that at some point someone is going to research it; at which point everyone is left flat footed by having not researched it.

We don’t research what happens when a child falls out of a plane and nobody feels like we’re falling behind for it.

Without directly addressing your proposed experiment, the history of aviation was filled with all sorts of grotesque experiments on humans. Absolutely disgusting stuff, like suffocating people to simulate high altitude flight. There was an ethical quandary about whether to use this data (IE, as citations).

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#83

Post by Terr_ »

nytesky wrote: post #3
xolox wrote: post #2

The potential for unchecked "growth" and potentially fatal infection vaguely reminds me of the terrifying aspects of prion based diseases. Thanks for giving me another theoretical nightmare scenario to worry about in the back of my mind! :-) Related: Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks (stanford.edu) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42403394

Grey goo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo AI paperclips https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/ai-and-paperclip-problem Prions getting into food supply Nuclear holocaust. I’m definitely not sleeping tonight. I can see why Gen Z is thinking not to have kids…

I find it slightly heartening to consider that all biological life is already a long-running Gray Goo apocalypse, and one of the inheritors of that legacy are towering trillion-unit megastructures with eldritch hiveminds were call "people."

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#84

Post by treyd »

https://archive.is/5MhOW

Why wouldn't it work in the other direction though? The mirror cells would be competing for the same ambidextrous resources (for my lack of a better term). Sugar is chiral isnt it? Would they be able to digest normal chiral resources?

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#85

Post by cyberax »

treyd wrote: post #84

https://archive.is/5MhOW Why wouldn't it work in the other direction though? The mirror cells would be competing for the same ambidextrous resources (for my lack of a better term). Sugar is chiral isnt it? Would they be able to digest normal chiral resources?

Sugars are chiral. The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize.

The only major non-chiral nutritional molecules are fatty acids.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#86

Post by Animats »

cyberax wrote: post #85
treyd wrote: post #84

https://archive.is/5MhOW Why wouldn't it work in the other direction though? The mirror cells would be competing for the same ambidextrous resources (for my lack of a better term). Sugar is chiral isnt it? Would they be able to digest normal chiral resources?

Sugars are chiral. The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize. The only major non-chiral nutritional molecules are fatty acids.

> The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize.

That's not the problem. There's a recent patent on synthesizing L-glucose cheaply.[1] The problem is that L-glucose turns out to be a strong laxative.[2]

Levoglucose (L-glucose) is the stereoisomer of D-glucose. L-Glucose does not occur naturally in higher living organisms, but can be synthesized in the laboratory. L-Glucose is indistinguishable in taste from D-glucose, but cannot be used by living organisms as source of energy because it cannot be phosphorylated by hexokinase, the first enzyme in the glycolysis pathway. Levoglucose may be used as diagnostic aid. It has been investigated as a non-nutritive food sweetener. However, L-glucose produced significant laxation, with an average of 4 to 5 loose watery stools in a 24-hour period. This laxative property clearly reduced the use of L-glucose as a food additive. The mechanism of laxation after L-glucose ingestion is unknown, but malabsorption of the compound with secondary osmotic diarrhea is likely. L-glucose is a well-tolerated, safe, and efficacious means of cleansing the colon for colonoscopy.

[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2015068724A1/en

[2] https://drugs.ncats.io/drug/02833ISA66

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#87

Post by rolph »

treyd wrote: post #84

https://archive.is/5MhOW Why wouldn't it work in the other direction though? The mirror cells would be competing for the same ambidextrous resources (for my lack of a better term). Sugar is chiral isnt it? Would they be able to digest normal chiral resources?

pick up your house key, hold it in front of a mirror, look at the key, and the reflection. you should notice the side of key away from mirror is visible, the reflection shows the other side of key .

so the sides of key, and reflection are switched relative to the key.

if you could somhow pluck the reflection from a mirror and try to use it, the left side is right, and right side is left.

when this happens with molecules, there is different parts of the molecules being brought together, leading to alternate interactions, thus different reaction path

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#88

Post by pixl97 »

Animats wrote: post #86
cyberax wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugars are chiral. The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize. The only major non-chiral nutritional molecules are fatty acids.

> The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize. That's not the problem. There's a recent patent on synthesizing L-glucose cheaply.[1] The problem is that L-glucose turns out to be a strong laxative.[2] Levoglucose (L-glucose) is the stereoisomer of D-glucose. L-Glucose does not occur naturally in higher living organisms, but can be synthesized in the laboratory. L-…

Ah the Haribo sugar free gummi bear effect.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#89

Post by bitwize »

Animats wrote: post #86
cyberax wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugars are chiral. The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize. The only major non-chiral nutritional molecules are fatty acids.

> The wrong-handed glucose would be a great sugar replacement, but it's too expensive to synthesize. That's not the problem. There's a recent patent on synthesizing L-glucose cheaply.[1] The problem is that L-glucose turns out to be a strong laxative.[2] Levoglucose (L-glucose) is the stereoisomer of D-glucose. L-Glucose does not occur naturally in higher living organisms, but can be synthesized in the laboratory. L-…

Reminds me of how some of the races from Mass Effect (notably turians and quarians) have the opposite chirality to our own, which means humans can't be nourished by their food and vice-versa. Interspecies sex is also complicated by this difference, so turians and quarians tend to date each other (when they date outside their species).

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#90

Post by PhasmaFelis »

exe34 wrote: post #80
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about a targeted weapon, we're talking about accidentally unleashing an unstoppable global pandemic. If only China is risking that, the odds are better for everyone.

Why wouldn't they make it into a targeted weapon? Us humans turn everything else into a weapon.

We are talking about an all-infecting pandemic. You can certainly weaponize it, if you think global collapse sounds fun. What you can't do is target it.
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