Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's • Hacker News Board

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#81

Post by baq » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 12:52 PM UTC

philjackson wrote: post #74

baq wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phillips Hues are just in another league compared to tradfris. One of those cases where you really get what you pay for.

Can you describe how? I have the IKEA bulbs throughout and it's difficult to imagine how they'd be any better.

Well... they're better, slightly or more noticeably, at everything: better color accuracy, dims lower, brightness is more linear, transitions are smoother... on paper they're similar, but when you actually use them, the differences become apparent quite quickly. (Disclaimer - have some GU10 Hues and some E27 Tradfris, both RGB).

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#82

Post by rainsford » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 12:58 PM UTC

15155 wrote: post #32

mikeyouse wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lutron has a physical switch that you replace your lightswitch with -- it works via the Caseta smart stuff, or it just works as a normal light switch that's 100% bulletproof. Also they use a much lower and less busy frequency (433mhz) so you get great range, no interference, and very low battery consumption when using the remote products. I went from 1/20 button pushes not doing what I wanted on Philips to 0 failures…

So do many Z-Wave and Zigbee manufacturers? https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-s... https://www.getzooz.com/products/ https://leviton.com/products/dz15s-1bz https://byjasco.com/products/smart-home-automation/z-wave How are any of these functionally different?

I honestly haven't tried those products, but what I don't see is the ability to have remotes control switches (or plug-in lamp modules) without needing to use a controller. Caseta allows this because there is a pairing process that just involves the remote and the switch. I'm not aware of any similar Z-Wave or Zigbee thing, but it would certainly be cool if those existed and honestly would make me reconsider Z-Wave/Zigbee if I was redoing my system.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#83

Post by rainsford » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 1:01 PM UTC

mastax wrote: post #15

rainsford wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM…

With zigbee you can “bind” devices together, so that their interactions work without needing the hub to intervene. I bound my IKEA buttons to my IKEA lights with my homeassistant controller (with some difficulty) so that even when the controller is offline the buttons will still work.

Thank you, I did not realize that was possible as I had not found zigbee/z-wave products that advertised such functionality, at least when I was building out my system...which admittedly was several years ago now. Sounds potentially still more painful than the Lutron pairing process, but very good to know it's possible.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#84

Post by rainsford » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 1:05 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #23

perching_aix wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q: > Why is "work[s] totally independently of Home Assistant" a desirable property? A: > the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi

Run Home Assistant OS in a VM and snapshot it on a schedule.

That's exactly what I do and in fact I've had very few problems with Home Assistant in this setup. I just don't like the idea of needing the VM to be functional 100% of the time for my lights to work. Maybe it's just a mental block or me being old fashioned or whatever, I just think things like lighting should be able to work the old fashioned way in additional to cool home automation stuff.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#85

Post by mastax » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 1:35 PM UTC

addandsubtract wrote: post #77

Rotareti wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's called 'direct binding.' All of my lights are directly bound to my switches, so they work even without the server or Zigbee coordinator running. With some switches, you can even bind light scenes directly to the buttons. For example, you can bind the four buttons of a Philips Hue Tap Dial to different light scenes using Zigbee2MQTT. Some switches don't allow direct binding, though. All of the Hue switche…

Do you have to choose between direct binding -or- controlling them through HA, or can you still control them through HA even when they are directly bound? Because I directly paired a switch with a light before (in Philips Hue), but then wasn't able to control it through the app anymore. Since switching to HA and Zigbee2mqtt, I just used triggers with switches, but wasn't aware that direct binding is a possibility. Go…

They can still be controlled through HA when directly bound.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#86

Post by nirvael » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

philjackson wrote: post #75

nirvael wrote: post #66

I have very recently been setting up HA and various Hue products and tbh I'm quite disappointed in both. For one thing, the Hue bridge requiring an ethernet cable is mind-blowing to me. My router doesn't have an ethernet port, and yes it does say on their website, but I wouldn't have expected it to be a requirement, especially when it actually has wifi capabilities on-device, they're just disabled. Setting up HA was…

Did you try going down the HA Docker route? Definitely not plug-and-play - there was tinkering - but no weird errors for me.

I considered it but the full OS route seemed cleaner, I wanted to use the Pi for it.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#87

Post by hipitihop » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

mjx0 wrote: post #45

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #39

Fair warning to anyone who hasn't touched Home Assistant - HA brings so much value, but is simultaneously so frustratingly atrocious. For example, it operates on an "update" data model. There is no difference between a sensor being offline and not reporting info vs a sensor being online but reporting a repeating (previously seen) value. Add to that the way data is stored (two week retention; this weird relationship w…

Have you found a better alternative? I'm trying to center around MQTT, myself, but looking for a way to use many of the wonderful integrations created by the Home Assistant community. I'm also trying to find a good solution to "react to state changes".

Consider leveraging the HA ecosystem of integrations, but for automations add Node Red. There is a well maintained WS node to HA that lets you call any service/action in HA and listen for events or device state changes. https://flows.nodered.org/node/node-red-contrib-home-assista... Along with everything else NR provides like MQTT pub/sub, only limit is imagination and time. I've been doing this for years. Another moving piece I know, but it has been bullet proof for me

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#88

Post by anbotero » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 2:42 PM UTC

acidburnNSA wrote: post #35

philjohn wrote: post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

This was my path. After Philips Hue required that I make an online account with them and wouldn't let me use my local-only devices without it, I rage bought a Sonoff dongle and transferred all my HUE lights over to it and then unceremoniously threw away my hue bridge. Zigbee2MQTT is working great. I'll always pay more for freedom from corporate project managers subscription metrics in my smart home devices. This phil…

This. Also, at least being offline-first should be a must. I went to a friend’s house, and she has a system to enable and disable lights, water, etc. There was a power outage in the area... she couldn’t enable the water to flow. What a joke.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#89

Post by ramses0 » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 2:45 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #40

ramses0 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aka: pretty much how the HA hardware devices (yellow/amber/green/blue) work by default.

Oh cool, never heard of these! I might just have to grab the Green to try out how easy it would be for less tech savvy family :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/18c5dxc/any_...

...I got the OG yellow/amber when it was kickstarted, and have added a 1tb NVME and a z-wave dongle (it came with zigbee).

The newer ones (green) have "ditched" internal networking other than wifi for compliance / regulatory reasons (eg: 1 hardware radio == complex, 2-3 hardware radios == exponentially more complex and requires differing international certifications).

https://www.home-assistant.io/green/

https://www.home-assistant.io/connectzbt1/

https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/z-wave/controllers/

https://www.home-assistant.io/common-tasks/os/#home-assistan...

...as that reddit thread alludes to: you're fairly better off chasing an old NUC-type-thing and just plugging in the extra dongles to that anyway (potentially zip-tying a hub, or maybe getting some 90º USB connectors so you're less worried about snapping things off if it gets bumped, dropped, or stepped on).

The software is pretty darned solid, I've dug into it a fair amount and haven't had much issues with it in the ~3-4 years I've had it.

As the CLI link describes, there's 2-3 layers of "reliability" going on: core => supervisor => host. Basically the supervisor will restart / rotate / backup the HA-core (aka: docker image), and you can occasionally update the "Host" (aka: OS). https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/linux/#install-ho... ...their HomeAssistantOS basically wraps all that up, and if you install it "that way", you effectively turn whatever hardware you're using into an "appliance"... really, just depends on what layer you want to handle your O.S. updates (ie: throw HA on as "just another service" on your homelab? ...or "let the little box manage itself").

The reason I added Z-Wave (eventually) was to get access to an exterior-rated, dimmable plug/extension cord (dimmable string lights) ... HomeKit ones were finicky, and I couldn't find any good ZigBee ones. The reason I added an NVMe inside (eventually) was I wanted to chase using it as kindof a plex-ish / backup / media server, but there's "gross" issues with HA's backup strategy by default (ie: it backs up the "whole HD", including `/Media/...`, which makes backup times exponential compared to "just the *.config.yaml", and effectively halves your usable disk space).

Since you'll have to buy some of those dongles anyway, start with that and do the "home assistant OS running on a rpi" route. Get a feel for it, and then jump in to a NUC which you can air-drop next to your family's cable modem.

I've got 80-90% of everything bridged over to Siri/HomeKit (all devices are treated "as good as apple home app", and only a few HA-specific "super-nerd stuff" that I've set up in the HA gui itself (ie: timed scripts for turning things on/off when we have a party in the back yard). You still have to pop in to HA when adding a new device, new device-type, or to update any of the three layers (integrations => home assistant => kernel/os/core), so like once every few months like any potentially vulnerable IoT device.

Overall, a solid 7-out-of-10 (because it's OSS) ... as OSS it's 9-out-of-10... just desperately needs some cohesion, GUI-love, simplification, etc, but the compatibility and power is all there!

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#90

Post by tass » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

rainsford wrote: post #82

15155 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do many Z-Wave and Zigbee manufacturers? https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-s... https://www.getzooz.com/products/ https://leviton.com/products/dz15s-1bz https://byjasco.com/products/smart-home-automation/z-wave How are any of these functionally different?

I honestly haven't tried those products, but what I don't see is the ability to have remotes control switches (or plug-in lamp modules) without needing to use a controller. Caseta allows this because there is a pairing process that just involves the remote and the switch. I'm not aware of any similar Z-Wave or Zigbee thing, but it would certainly be cool if those existed and honestly would make me reconsider Z-Wave/Z…

I only recently (3 months ago) set up my new house with Lutron devices because their diva dimmers are truly the best of anything out there I’ve used - their slide dimmer control is easy to use and their lack of flicker and buzzing with leds is the best out there. Their battery powered remotes also last forever (10 years?) without needing battery changes and work very reliably.

I do have a couple of zwave dimmers for special cases (dimmer and fan in one switch), and they support zwave association. Without the hub being available, one switch can turn on another - you could have the light turn on a fan, for example, or associate a remote control to a light. Zigbee has a similar feature.