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A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

theatlantic.com

81–90 of 123 posts

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#81

Consumers vote with their wallets that they prefer the big box stores. Reagan removed bargaining restrictions on big box stores, which lowered prices. Bad or good for consumers? Does it matter if you need to drive 8 or 11 miles (non-desert vs. desert) to buy boxed cereals and processed food? CostCo rides the same dynamic, at scale. CostCo deserts? Want to fix it, HN-style? Create a startup! But more regulation? Ffs.

Regulation is what is needed nevertheless

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#82
post #22

Isn't this a roundabout way of saying that, absent government coercion, consumer preference tends to be towards buying cheaper groceries at a big consolidated store a drive away, than a more expensive nearby store? Isn't the real boogieman here rules (zoning, parking requirements, etc) and subsidies (oil industry) than mean we all live in diffuse single-use residential communities and have to have cars to get to work…

There was no substantial change in zoning, parking requirements, etc or oil subsidies between the when local stores were competing quite well with the big consolidated stores and the time when the local stores started disappearing and the big consolidated stores become dominant, so those cannot be the explanation.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#83
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very silly, and the evidence for it is in the world all around you. Walmart is cheaper for most things. If they did not in fact pass the cost on, then there is the idea for your startup business: a grocery supplier to small neighborhood retailers.

Walmart is cheaper for the customer (modulo the expense of driving to a Walmart). But Walmart is also a lot cheaper for Walmart. One delta is larger than the other.

Walmart has been making around 2% profits for a decade. Do you think that Walmart is less than 2% cheaper than small neighborhood grocery stores?

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you enjoy the next 40 years, becuae they will be the same as the last 40 years with people like you making the same excuses election after election.

What "making excuses"? The Republicans have literally stated over and over[1] that their goal is to make government not work and make Democrats look bad - not to make life better for their constituents. Meanwhile the Democrats have to spend every term fixing the things the GOP broke, only for voters to reward them by saying "you didn't fix everything and this dude promises the magical tax fairy will build a wall and…

>Meanwhile the Democrats have to spend every term fixing the things the GOP broke

Like NAFTA.

When it comes to making people lives worse the democrats are just as capable as the republicans.

It's just that when it comes to helping people. Oh no. Woe is us we can't do anything with the presidency, and a super majority in every branch of government.

This happens once every 20 years.

But democratic cultists always come out of the wood work to explain why this is actually ~Reagans~ ~Bushs~ ~Bush2s~ Trumps fault.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#85
post #82
post #22

Isn't this a roundabout way of saying that, absent government coercion, consumer preference tends to be towards buying cheaper groceries at a big consolidated store a drive away, than a more expensive nearby store? Isn't the real boogieman here rules (zoning, parking requirements, etc) and subsidies (oil industry) than mean we all live in diffuse single-use residential communities and have to have cars to get to work…

There was no substantial change in zoning, parking requirements, etc or oil subsidies between the when local stores were competing quite well with the big consolidated stores and the time when the local stores started disappearing and the big consolidated stores become dominant, so those cannot be the explanation.

I don't doubt that the change in regulation enforcement mentioned in the article precipitated the shift away from small grocery stores. But the effects of bad zoning have been building for 100 years since Euclid v. Ambler. And it obvious that living in large tracts of single-use residential zones all but requires car ownership. If you already have a car, and all homes and all businesses are surrounded by seas of parking, then going to a large consolidated store is a financial win for a consumer rather than a burden.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#86
post #7
post #2

Once again, much of the state of America can be summarized as "this awful experience is a direct result of the Reagan administration, but most people don't realize it".

The problem is that about half the country still sees him as some sort of hero.

The funny thing about Reagan is if you go onto /r/republican or /r/conservative on Reddit and for any problem today that is similar to one faced under Reagan you suggest the same solution Reagan used (but don't say it was Reagan's solution) you will get promptly banned for posting liberal talking points.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#87
> Then it was abandoned. In the 1980s, convinced that tough antitrust enforcement was holding back American business, the Reagan administration set about dismantling it. The Robinson-Patman Act remained on the books, but the new regime saw it as an economically illiterate handout to inefficient small businesses. And so the government simply stopped enforcing it.

I'm going to need more meat than this. Was there a memo that went out detailing that this statutory law will no longer be enforced? Did no succeeding FTC Chair or Attorney General think to pick up the torch?

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "making excuses"? The Republicans have literally stated over and over[1] that their goal is to make government not work and make Democrats look bad - not to make life better for their constituents. Meanwhile the Democrats have to spend every term fixing the things the GOP broke, only for voters to reward them by saying "you didn't fix everything and this dude promises the magical tax fairy will build a wall and…

>Meanwhile the Democrats have to spend every term fixing the things the GOP broke Like NAFTA. When it comes to making people lives worse the democrats are just as capable as the republicans. It's just that when it comes to helping people. Oh no. Woe is us we can't do anything with the presidency, and a super majority in every branch of government. This happens once every 20 years. But democratic cultists always come…

In just 4 years of Biden the Democrats got infrastructure spending, the CHIPS act, inflation under control, unemployment down to levels not seen in decades, eliminated billions in student debt, capped insulin prices, allowed Medicare to negotiate lower prices for more drugs, had multiple years of job growth every month, cut child poverty rates in half (from 12% to 6%), passed rules guaranteeing overtime pay for more workers (later overturned by a Republican judge), supported rail unions in getting paid sick days, criminalized sexual harassment in the military, invested in clean drinking water through infrastructure upgrades, prosecuted antitrust, blocked harmful corporate mergers, and more - but please tell me how they do nothing and it's all the same.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#89

Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr are the 3 presidents that have obliterated the working class. Unrestrained capitalism creates monopolies and those 3 presidents created an environment for monopolies to flourish. Reagan started things off by deregulating businesses and rewarding big business for "efficiency". Which really just translated into big businesses buying out the competition and jacking up the prices. Clinton con…

> The rollout of the ACA marketplaces is a prime example of what that capture looks like, a sub sub sub sub sub contracted and ultimately outsourced project that was riddled with bugs costing millions to create when literally if the fed gov had a team of software devs employed (perhaps some of the devs from the DOD?) it would have cost far less and would have actually worked.

You are probably overlooking a lot of complexity in the ACA marketplace software. It needed to exchange information with a bunch of different state systems and the systems of several different federal agencies, and most of those systems had not been designed to exchange information with systems outside of their state or agency.

Re: A federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert

#90
post #43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this a roundabout way of saying that, absent government coercion, consumer preference tends to be towards buying cheaper groceries at a big consolidated store a drive away, than a more expensive nearby store? This seems to be missing the point, which has nothing to do with consumer preference. When Robinson-Patman was enforced, suppliers had to offer the same deal to all grocers, so prices were the same at th…

> When Robinson-Patman was enforced, suppliers had to offer the same deal to all grocers The law made it so no one had the position to squeeze suppliers for lower prices and as a result, consumers paid more for groceries. If the suppliers were shifting their costs unduly to small retailers, then there was a market for new suppliers. If retailers were a monopoly they would have raised prices, and that hasn't happened.…

> The law made it so no one had the position to squeeze suppliers for lower prices

Not quite. The law made it so that suppliers couldn't offer better deals to one of its customers over another. But retailers could still squeeze suppliers by going with another supplier if another supplier had better prices.

In other words, the law didn't make suppliers a monopoly, there was still competition between suppliers, it just prevented suppliers from shifting a disadvantage onto their smallest customers.

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