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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

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Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#81

Post by zeroonetwothree »

dheera wrote: post #61
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

> The reason you fluff up feedback to your subordinates is because lower down the chain they tend to be insecure and don't yet have the experience to distinguish between actionable impartial feedback, and threats to their job security. Rather than fluff it up, just make it explicit whichever you are doing. If you actually like their work and are making an actionable suggestion, just say that, and don't forget to prai…

Well yes, it’s a higher variance approach. If you can’t afford to look for a new job then by all means keep your head down and avoid all controversy. I would do the same in that situation. That doesn’t apply to everyone however, so for those people it would make sense to try to make things better and potentially advance their careers.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#82

Post by zeroonetwothree »

jellicle wrote: post #56
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

If you've honestly never seen the types of leaders envisioned in this article you are very lucky indeed. For a large majority of supervisors, if you give them carefully-worded, polite, respectful, private, accurate, truthful, ego-preserving feedback about something they're doing wrong, their response will range between "immediate firing" and "hold a grudge against you, fire you as soon as they can find a replacement"…

It’s surprising to me that such dysfunctional orgs exist where a single person can just fire someone immediately over some feedback. How have they even grown to be a business with that attitude?

But sure, you do need to adapt your strategy for the environment you exist in. That’s just common sense.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#83

Post by zeroonetwothree »

kybernetikos wrote: post #14

Most of those examples (not giving enough direction, not training new hires enough, not being clear enough on priorities) are probably not going to be surprises for the person, and if you give feedback that shows you want someone to behave differently without having given some thought about why they aren't already then your feedback talks more about your own lack of experience and empathy than anything else. To give…

I think the best feedback is pointing out problems (and then trusting the other party to act or at least explain why things are that way). You never have the full context so just telling someone they need to behave differently may not even be ideal given the information they have.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#84

Post by apeescape »

brunooliv wrote: post #26

I found strange to see so much criticism of the post as usually, anything that Wes Kao writes really resonates with me as a senior IC. Usually there’s a great balance of nuance and depth to the advice that makes it easy to digest and pick small bits and pieces to try out on my own context

I absolutely hate having to say stuff in between the lines or trying to interpret veiled intentions. There's def no need to be pointlessly rude when giving criticism, but to me, beating around the bush is exhausting and often frustratingly ineffective.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#86

Post by lupire »

dheera wrote: post #61
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

> The reason you fluff up feedback to your subordinates is because lower down the chain they tend to be insecure and don't yet have the experience to distinguish between actionable impartial feedback, and threats to their job security. Rather than fluff it up, just make it explicit whichever you are doing. If you actually like their work and are making an actionable suggestion, just say that, and don't forget to prai…

If most people in your company are on s, your management is probably breaking the laws and is not the sort of person who appreciates honest communication.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#87

Post by [deleted] »

NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

[deleted]

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#88

Post by lupire »

bradlys wrote: post #11
flog wrote: post #4

This was one of the most exhausting aspects of working for a US company, especially as an H1B. Simply: just don't say anything, it wasn't worth it. I'm from cultures where we bluntly call a spade a spade and pride ourselves on disdain for hierarchy. There's far less fear in raising concerns generally to anyone, but it's quite possibly because of the far better employment laws.

It's not just due to an employee being H1B. It's that 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. I don't even feel like I'm working in the US when I'm working for any tech company these days. If I'm at ads for FB, I may as well be in Beijing. Some others, I may as well be in Mumbai. It would be nice to work with Americans/westerners for once and actuall…

I don't like all the stereotypes people throw around, but among those stereotypes is that California tech bros are pathological delusional wannabe-hippie optimists who blow smoke and sunshine at everyone.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#89

Post by jayd16 »

palata wrote: post #42

In my 13 years of experience, I would say it's never worth giving feedback to your manager. Either they are good and it's useless, or they are not and they won't learn from you. I have come to a simple rule: if the manager is good, there is no problem. If the manager sucks (often that's because they lack experience, but it's all the same), just lie to them in order to preserve yourself. No need to have empathy for th…

So bleak. It's fine to protect yourself but your managers are people too. You _can_ build a report with them and be frank with them.

When I manage folks, I much prefer honesty over someone who just bullshits you.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#90

Post by inopinatus »

NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

I don't know what godawful chain you are hitched to but I hope you can find a way off it.

High-performance managers realise they are there to enable the talent. You're Brian Epstein, not John Lennon. The job is to create the conditions for folks at the pointy end to be wildly successful.

One of the most defining characteristics of this attitude is the maxim "hire people smarter than yourself", a very fine sentiment with the only problem being that by induction it makes the CEO the dumbest person in the company.

But I digress. If I'm fucking up, then I hope to god my trusted lieutenants will tell me without any pussyfooting around. It's practically what I hired them for.

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