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Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

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Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes advertisers want control, wouldn't you? But it has nothing to do with "free speech". Try "good speech". Elon reduced the amount of subjective "good speech" and increased "bad speech". Advertisers have the freedom to do what they want. Elon, on the other hand, has absolute control of the words on his platform.

>Yes advertisers want control, wouldn't you? If they would have control, people would stop going to Twitter and it would die. Similar fate to the TV mainstream media where they only parrot the opinions of their money overlords, and people are tired of that. That's why they go on to Twitter instead, to look for comments conforming to their own world views rather than what some trillion dollar corporations and out of t…

>> exactly what the people really think (probably what you consider "bad speech")

That is a large, opinionated assumption you are making, but be aware we're not discussing "me" but rather advertisers.

As for "me" I consider "bad speech" to be enabled by "unmoderated free speech", which Elon freely chose to allow on Twitter. So yes, he chose to increase it. "Free speech" is NOT synonymous with truth or facts. I will stay away from people and places that I consider to use "bad speech". Yes, it's subjective, and that's the point.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#82
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just taxes, it's also important for your balance sheet. Which I imagine is important to a publicly listed company like Mercedes. If you pay someone $100.000 and they don't create anything, that's money you lost. But if you spend $100.000 on research or development (two subtly different things) there is the expectation that they created at least $100.000 of value that will be realized in future years. You did…

I don’t understand the tax implications. Employee salary is subtracted from gross earnings and not taxed. You have employment taxes but you have to pay those regardless. So how is an employee salary categorized as r&d a tax benefit?

R&D expenditure often let's you write off more than 100% of the cost for tax purposes, to encourage it.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#83
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Love him or hate him, he gets shit done. That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini. The world besides Musk, before Musk, and after Musk (unless he destroys it) gets plenty of things done. 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. They get things done for some, and destroy and kill others. If he's so good - or even basically capable as a manager and leader - then like the others he can reall…

he bought full and entire control of America for measly $44bn, likely will be viewed later in history as the greatest investment ever made :) he didnt buy twitter to make money off it, he bought it to control the masses and swing election - mission accomplished

Plutocracy unveiled.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#84
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough point, but do we wait until millions suffer and die in order to call it out? Causing widespread suffering is a means fully embraced, planned, and enacted by Musk and the team Musk is on. How much more warning do you need? And they justify it by saying 'we get things done'.

>Fair enough point, but do we wait until millions suffer and die in order to call it out? Reading mean comments on Elon's social media platform is not "suffering". You can just turn it off and stop using it. You also don't have to work for Elon's companies, you are free to work anywhere else. Stop comparing it to life under dictators. Talk to people who lived under Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao or Ceuasescu. Comparing Elon or…

Dictator for a day?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-trump-has-said-he...

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he bought full and entire control of America for measly $44bn, likely will be viewed later in history as the greatest investment ever made :) he didnt buy twitter to make money off it, he bought it to control the masses and swing election - mission accomplished

Plutocracy unveiled.

look at where democracy got us - maybe time to try something else? :)

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

look at where democracy got us - maybe time to try something else? :)

Ranked voting, for a start!

ohh that would be the day! not to sound all pessimistic on this fine saturday but people are too stupid to see the benefits of it

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#88
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does get shit done. Sometimes it's good shit, other times it's just shit. That cost-cutting approach worked with turning Tesla from the butt of (quite reasonable at the time) jokes about "Death Watch" because they kept needing more and more investment money, into the success they are today. It utterly failed with Twitter, which has lost most of its revenue and is constantly running into legal issues.

By your own statement, people said the same things about Tesla in the past which they do about Twitter today. That alone should be pretty strong evidence that it's too soon to tell if his approach with Twitter has failed. Maybe it will fail, maybe not, but either way I think it's too soon to call.

Not really comparable:

People were negative about Tesla owing to a long history of making negligible sales before Musk took over as the third CEO.

Twitter was occasionally profitable, and now it has so little income it can't cover the loan he saddled with it even if literally every other cost was entirely eliminated.

Now, that doesn't mean that Musk can't change course on Twitter, nor does it mean that he can't just burn money with Twitter for as long as he wants to, but it's still a thing where if I were somehow a shareholder, I'd be trying to sell.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#89
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does get shit done. Sometimes it's good shit, other times it's just shit. That cost-cutting approach worked with turning Tesla from the butt of (quite reasonable at the time) jokes about "Death Watch" because they kept needing more and more investment money, into the success they are today. It utterly failed with Twitter, which has lost most of its revenue and is constantly running into legal issues.

I don't see the failure in Twitter. It's a platform capable of influencing elections, that's definitely worth more than people think. It lost revenue since advertisers don't like the platform's freedom of speech, and Elon won't give them control of what's allowed on the platform. Advertisers want control, they don't want free speech. Why do you think You tube removed the downvote counter? Advertisers pay not just to…

> I don't see the failure in Twitter. It's a platform capable of influencing elections, that's definitely worth more than people think.

In a functioning democracy, every platform influences elections. Twitter isn't special in this regard.

> Advertisers want control

They want things that don't actively damage their brands. That's not the same thing.

> Why do you think You tube removed the downvote counter?

My guess is "seeing downvotes lead to less engagement". But as I've not seen the discussion, that's a guess.

> If crowds of people are allowed to freely light a brand on fire on Twitter, why would they pay to advertise there?

They could do that before he bought it.

> Meta paid like 22 Billion for WhatsApp which is hardly bringing in revenue.

The actual revenue is not published, but is claimed to be at least $1 billion/year based on the preceeding quarter:

"""Alice Newton-Rex, WhatsApp's vice president of product, told the Financial Times in late September 2024, that "paid messaging is a bit earlier in the journey, but it's also doing well, and we've passed a $1 billion run rate."""" - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/04091...

That said, nobody's going around saying "gosh what a great investment decision by Zuckerberg, he nailed this one", if they're saying anything at all it's usually along the lines of "huh, is this a monopoly issue?"

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes advertisers want control, wouldn't you? But it has nothing to do with "free speech". Try "good speech". Elon reduced the amount of subjective "good speech" and increased "bad speech". Advertisers have the freedom to do what they want. Elon, on the other hand, has absolute control of the words on his platform.

>Yes advertisers want control, wouldn't you? If they would have control, people would stop going to Twitter and it would die. Similar fate to the TV mainstream media where they only parrot the opinions of their money overlords, and people are tired of that. That's why they go on to Twitter instead, to look for comments conforming to their own world views rather than what some trillion dollar corporations and out of t…

> What is "good speech" and what is "bad speech" for you? Let me guess, "good speech" is the opinions you agree with and "bad speech" is the opinions you disagree with?

What happens if this pseudocode is run, targeting your account?

  while True:
    requests.post(api_url, json={"username": "@Cumpiler69", "message": "hello"})
Answer: you can't see any other content because you're jammed with someone else's absolute freedom to speak to you.

Signal, noise.

Signal keeps you engaged, noise doesn't. What counts as which depends on the person, but you can't function in an environment that allows anything.

Thing is, the exact thing that makes social networks useful, that it's the edges not the nodes, means it is very easy to be jammed by actual humans and not just stupid scripts like the one above.

Ironically, very simple things like I've just shown you, are also how propaganda works: jam people's perception by overloading them with The Message. And any attempt to be "absolutist" about free speech, if he really was (which he isn't really despite what he says), is just a power vacuum into which those that seek power can project their propaganda.

There's no fancy good way out with this, for anyone, much as I'd like there to be. There's no "your side or my side" distinction here, nor would there be if the world were really so parochial as US politics.

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