Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

arxiv.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 598 posts

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#81

Post by [deleted] »

shmatt wrote: post #37
falseprofit wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if someone is “amazing” you should get them a green card.

In this example the amazing engineer is a citizen or permanent resident already If my superiors would give me extra unexpected budget I’d be happy to. But if I find a citizen that is just as good as my opt employee, my only path forward is to either fire the opt or let them continue on the team but not submit their GC application (because I have to swear I couldn’t find a citizen that is just as good)

[deleted]

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#82

Post by School-Cotton »

flatline wrote: post #57
shmatt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this example the amazing engineer is a citizen or permanent resident already If my superiors would give me extra unexpected budget I’d be happy to. But if I find a citizen that is just as good as my opt employee, my only path forward is to either fire the opt or let them continue on the team but not submit their GC application (because I have to swear I couldn’t find a citizen that is just as good)

…because if you grant them the green card they will up and get a new job? The incentives here are so screwed up for everyone, it effectively codifies a caste system of immigrant workers.

No, you're missing the point.

To extend the visa they have to swear they couldn't find a citizen to do this job, and aren't willing to lie.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#83

Post by dec0dedab0de »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #41
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

Wait, this isn't clear to me. Are the interviewees citizens? So you're interviewing citizens to prove that there aren't any who can fill your jobs but even when they clearly could fill the job you don't hire them? Seems like the requirement of proving "there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job" is going to be near impossible for the government to enforce

Yes, h1b hiring practices have been shady at best for atleast a decade. For everyone that just doesn’t want to fire a coworker there is someone taking advantage of cheap labor that is easier to control under the threat of deportation.

The h1b program is supposed to be for people at the top of their field so they can skip the normal visa line, but it is commonly used to save money through exploitation.

A long time ago I read an hn comment that suggested h1b visas should go to the highest paying jobs, with the logic being that if they are such a rare talent they should probably be getting paid more.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#84

Post by theideaofcoffee »

marban wrote: post #8

Is everyone ignoring the fact that companies do this to make themselves look bigger than they are compared to the competition and/or to pretend economic success?

I pretty much see it as a negative signal now. If I happen across a board for a given company, look at the positions they have posted, and then come back to it a few months later and see the exact same ones listed without any change, then I just move on to something else. It tells me a few things: either they don't know what they're looking for and are just fishing, they want to make it appear they are grow-grow-growing but still can't figure out exactly what they want, they're trying to posture like they are bigger than they are, like you said. If they're playing the game, I probably don't want to be there.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#85

Post by willsmith72 »

codingwagie wrote: post #72
willsmith72 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the amount of good job applicants from america is also really low. It's not a great argument, but it's the same with DEI. I literally don't have enough applicants to fill a quota even if 100% of them passed all interviews

I run interviewing at a well known company, this isnt true

Most companies aren't well known, what makes you think your experience is the "true" one?

You mean to say you get a large amount of high quality American candidates?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#86

Post by cj »

xvedejas wrote: post #65
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

So when interviewing, perhaps I should skip more places that say citizenship required on the req, to avoid wasting my time?

No. Many (especially smaller) companies don't want to hire people who need visa sponsorship because it requires a decent amount of overhead. The company needs to have an immigration lawyer to prepare and submit paperwork, which many smaller companies don't want to bother with.

FWIW it's illegal to require "US citizenship" in a job description. You can, however, say "eligible to work in the US". (The former would be discriminatory against non-citizen permanent residents). Although I'm also not a lawyer.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#87

Post by fjni »

echoangle wrote: post #68
xyst wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't ethical. It shouldn't be legal. But it is. Welcome to America.

> It shouldn't be legal. But it is. How is that legal? If you think the local applicant can do the job, you legally can’t hire the H-1B over them, right?

OP already hired H-1B in the past and that person is working for them now. OP is now in the process of doing a green card application for said employee. They can't move forward with the GC application because there are other qualified citizens/residents, but they don't have to fire the existing H1B employee.

That's how I understand OP, if that's legally true or not, I don't know.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#88

Post by lazide »

flatline wrote: post #57
shmatt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this example the amazing engineer is a citizen or permanent resident already If my superiors would give me extra unexpected budget I’d be happy to. But if I find a citizen that is just as good as my opt employee, my only path forward is to either fire the opt or let them continue on the team but not submit their GC application (because I have to swear I couldn’t find a citizen that is just as good)

…because if you grant them the green card they will up and get a new job? The incentives here are so screwed up for everyone, it effectively codifies a caste system of immigrant workers.

Caste systems are extremely convenient.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#89

Post by yawnxyz »

echoangle wrote: post #68
xyst wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't ethical. It shouldn't be legal. But it is. Welcome to America.

> It shouldn't be legal. But it is. How is that legal? If you think the local applicant can do the job, you legally can’t hire the H-1B over them, right?

it's a loophole, and loopholes are legal

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#90

Post by Mountain_Skies »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #41
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

Wait, this isn't clear to me. Are the interviewees citizens? So you're interviewing citizens to prove that there aren't any who can fill your jobs but even when they clearly could fill the job you don't hire them? Seems like the requirement of proving "there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job" is going to be near impossible for the government to enforce

This has been going on for decades. My first job out of university was at a dotcom consultancy with over 90% of software engineers there on H1B visas. The company was not at all shy about the fact that they only hired citizens/permanent residents if they had no other choice. I was hired because I had experience with a particular obscure RTOS that they couldn't find anyone on a visa who could do the work on a project they already told a client we were experts in.

Our VP of Software Engineering (here on a visa himself) stood right next to my desk telling one of our programmers not to worry about his visa expiring because they'd post his job for 24 hours on the company website, accept resumes for one week, and then declare the job unfillable by local talent so he could get his visa renewed. This was in 2000 and this type of thing has been practiced openly and with no fear of there ever being any consequences for violating both the letter and spirit of the law regarding using labor visas.

These threads end up fire hosed with people claiming hiring visa holders over citizens and permanent residents doesn't happen nor does it push down wages. They know these are lies and have been lies for decades. But since there are no consequences, legally or socially, it continues to be the default behavior. This in turn warps local talent development as more and more kids see that there's little reason to go into a career field where the government and business openly collude to disadvantage locals in favor of visa labor.

Post reply on HN