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Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

marinecorpstimes.com

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Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#81

Post by jameshart »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #64
serf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the same boiler-plate reason they give for every firing due to an embarrassing mishap. google 'for loss of trust and confidence in his ability military' and look at the news tab, every embarrassment to a military group gets thrown that bone.

seems reasonable to me. If someone lost a 110 million dollar asset in a questionable way, I wouldn't have trust and confidence in their ability either. Flying cutting edge military jets isn't exactly a human right.

On the other hand, the USMC has invested considerable time and effort in training this person to operate the F-35. Replacing him with someone else will take time and money. For the organization that invested all that into him to say ‘nope, we don’t want you to fly these things any more’ is itself a massive waste of resources.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#82

Post by [deleted] »

mmooss wrote: post #74
synapsomorphy wrote: post #7

The report criticizes the pilot for ejecting, but also says he did everything by the book (F35 manual), but the book was wrong. And the pilot should've figured that out? Feels like they just need someone to blame for losing the plane.

At least one concept of it is that officers (and NCOs and maybe others) are expected to succeed when the 'book' is insufficient. Following the manual is not nearly enough. Warfare is chaos; unexpected things happen; the manual is one input but people are expected to take initiative and overcome problems with or without it. It's not extra credit, it's a baseline expectation for the job. Also, this person is a colonel,…

[deleted]

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#83

Post by [deleted] »

Syonyk wrote: post #34
jasonlotito wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VMX-1 is in charge of assessing the Corps’ aircraft and helping develop and refine tactics, techniques and procedures to fly them in combat successfully. > What sucks for the pilot is he followed procedure He was the commander. He defines those procedures.

In other words, he was a rather experienced pilot in that airframe and knew it better than most pilots should. And still decided that the successful outcome of the flight was in doubt based on the condition of the airframe and systems failures, in the middle of the situation. He survived. Working as intended, as far as I'm concerned.

[deleted]

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#84

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

mmooss wrote: post #77

Has this become a politicized, viral, ideology thing? I keep seeing this story pop up in several places, but it doesn't seem like its impact merits the attention. I'm not trolling and please don't bring the politics and ideology here. I am asking factually. (I'm here because I prefer to avoid those things and as a result can be ignorant of them.)

Anything that makes the US look bad is sticky around here.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#85

Post by some_random »

mmooss wrote: post #77

Has this become a politicized, viral, ideology thing? I keep seeing this story pop up in several places, but it doesn't seem like its impact merits the attention. I'm not trolling and please don't bring the politics and ideology here. I am asking factually. (I'm here because I prefer to avoid those things and as a result can be ignorant of them.)

Hating the F-35 in general has been a thing for the Anti-American crowd, mainly driven by western peaceniks who don't see a point in military might (largely depleted now) and the pro-Russia/China/etc crowd who need it to be shit so their fighters can seem competent. As is usual the latter "inform" the former.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#86

Post by master_crab »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #64
serf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the same boiler-plate reason they give for every firing due to an embarrassing mishap. google 'for loss of trust and confidence in his ability military' and look at the news tab, every embarrassment to a military group gets thrown that bone.

seems reasonable to me. If someone lost a 110 million dollar asset in a questionable way, I wouldn't have trust and confidence in their ability either. Flying cutting edge military jets isn't exactly a human right.

Ehh. While I understand your point, I think we should also ask ourselves if it’s reasonable for a fighter to cost $110m a pop.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#87

Post by neilv »

There's too many comments here making assertions that seem to be based on misreading the article.

Too many to respond to individually.

Please, especially if one is criticizing someone else's judgment, one should show the good judgment of getting one's facts straight.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#88

Post by le-mark »

It’s unfortunate neither the Navy nor the Air Force want anything to do with the close air support role. The Marines are the smallest arm of the US military but they “do it all”, except tanks, they got rid if they’re Abrams some years ago.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#89

Post by derekp7 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #64
serf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the same boiler-plate reason they give for every firing due to an embarrassing mishap. google 'for loss of trust and confidence in his ability military' and look at the news tab, every embarrassment to a military group gets thrown that bone.

seems reasonable to me. If someone lost a 110 million dollar asset in a questionable way, I wouldn't have trust and confidence in their ability either. Flying cutting edge military jets isn't exactly a human right.

That's all well and good, except the next pilot facing a potential loss of aircraft will probably hesitate (worrying about getting shafted), and keep trying to recover the craft until it is too late. Then you have a crashed plane, and a dead pilot. People make better decisions when there is precident for a no-fault management style.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#90

Post by alistairSH »

jasonlotito wrote: post #23
defrost wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in hindsight, no. What sucks for the pilot is he followed procedure and at the time had no way of knowing whether the craft would remain stable or totally brick and spiral any second (rendering a procedural ejection even more dangerous).

> VMX-1 is in charge of assessing the Corps’ aircraft and helping develop and refine tactics, techniques and procedures to fly them in combat successfully. > What sucks for the pilot is he followed procedure He was the commander. He defines those procedures.

The time-line was roughly…

Offered command of VMX-1

Months pass

Crash plane

Months pass

Take command of VMX-1

Months pass

Loses command of VMX-1

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