Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#81

Post by Muromec » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #52

thrw42A8N wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They paid 18% less tax in 2016 than in 2013 while the number of flats available on the site went from 30k to 300k Completely meaningless without also saying what their costs and investments were.

Well no that's not really what happens, what happens is that legally the french entity is just a service provider for the irish HQ. They pretend it's a simple marketing agency and that the real value is provided by the irish entity

At some point governments will catch up and start taxing based on percentage of global revenue or even turnover.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#82

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #42

lm28469 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wasn't Uber or some other US company found doing something similar? Airbnb, they had to pay like 70k of tax a few years ago. There are employees who pay as much tax as single filers lol They paid 18% less tax in 2016 than in 2013 while the number of flats available on the site went from 30k to 300k https://www.lesechos.fr/2016/08/airbnb-na-paye-que-69168-eur...

All spending should be taxed instead of income. Income is too easy to move and hide. Spending tax could be unified framework encompassing all financial activity. If you purchase anything, labor, imports, energy, stock, politicians, you should be taxed. Spending is the moment when the money shows its ugly head and does harm.

Correct, and it could be implemented as a power law formula that makes it impossible for the super rich to avoid tax (since they are the only ones that can spend a lot). It also aligns incentives with environmentalism and reducing waste and consumption. And poorer people are automatically exempted from tax since the power law formula parameters be set to slowly ramp up.

This is also easily accomplished now that almost all payments are happening digitally, assigned to a taxpayer ID#. We can easily replace a W-2 or 1099 with total spending instead of taxing working.

Of course, this should also be paired with similarly designed land value and estate taxes to disincentivize hoarding.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#83

Post by Muromec » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

yunohn wrote: post #37

s_dev wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your information is outdated -- Double Irish is no longer applicable according to your own source since 2010.

No, it’s much more complicated than that. If you scroll a bit further: > After pressure from the EU,[22] the Double Irish BEPS tool was closed to new users in 2015,[citation needed] however, new Irish BEPS tools were created to replace it:[23][24] Not only do the original evaders get to continue doing it, they’ve also found new loopholes already.

It's like eruv. The loophole was planted there for us mortals to find and use it

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#84

Post by nicce » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

Algent wrote: post #69

seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

That's basically what happened when they tried (twice I think ?) to raid Uber offices in France, their boss pressed a kill switch and everything went down in seconds. It completely blocked the investigation. Afterward Uber helped Macron campaign who then ordered National Financial Prosecutor's office to "stop bothering them" so I don't think anything new happened since. Edit: Some sources in below replies for infos o…

> Afterward Uber helped Macron campaign who then ordered National Financial Prosecutor's office to "stop bothering them" so I don't think anything new happened since.

Isn’t that kinda definiton of corruption?

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#85

Post by I_am_tiberius » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

I know I'm likely alone in this opinion, but corporate income tax seems like a poorly designed tax to me. Why should companies pay taxes in a year with high profits, even if they face losses for the next ten years? Why should I pay corporate income tax when dividends and income are taxed anyway? Corporate income tax also seems to heavily influence business strategies as a consequence, which wasn't its intended purpose.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#86

Post by stuaxo » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

Algent wrote: post #69

seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

That's basically what happened when they tried (twice I think ?) to raid Uber offices in France, their boss pressed a kill switch and everything went down in seconds. It completely blocked the investigation. Afterward Uber helped Macron campaign who then ordered National Financial Prosecutor's office to "stop bothering them" so I don't think anything new happened since. Edit: Some sources in below replies for infos o…

That sounds so illegal, it's crazy there aren't consequences for that.

EDIT: Article on the kills switch https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/jul/10/uber-bosses-tol...

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#87

Post by SirMaster » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:34 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #15

seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

> everything being stored in the cloud somewhere Sounds like it would make it easier for law enforcement. They no longer need a warrant against/for the company they're investigating, just the place where their data is stored. Get the warrant, raid the place and grab the drives, then continue the investigation. Done the right way, the company under investigation wouldn't even notice it.

Grab the drives from the cloud?

Isn't most data in the cloud heavily distributed and broken into shards across many racks and drives and such? And encrypted so is useless outside of the custom block storage system employed by the cloud provider?

They would need to decrypt and assemble the shards to get usable data out.

I have no clue how they would even know which drives out the tens of thousands to grab, and they would also have other customer's data on them.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#88

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:34 PM UTC

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #85

I know I'm likely alone in this opinion, but corporate income tax seems like a poorly designed tax to me. Why should companies pay taxes in a year with high profits, even if they face losses for the next ten years? Why should I pay corporate income tax when dividends and income are taxed anyway? Corporate income tax also seems to heavily influence business strategies as a consequence, which wasn't its intended purpos…

[deleted]

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#89

Post by jaimsam » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:35 PM UTC

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #85

I know I'm likely alone in this opinion, but corporate income tax seems like a poorly designed tax to me. Why should companies pay taxes in a year with high profits, even if they face losses for the next ten years? Why should I pay corporate income tax when dividends and income are taxed anyway? Corporate income tax also seems to heavily influence business strategies as a consequence, which wasn't its intended purpos…

A lot of words to say: taxation is theft.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#90

Post by tnolet » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 4:35 PM UTC

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #85

I know I'm likely alone in this opinion, but corporate income tax seems like a poorly designed tax to me. Why should companies pay taxes in a year with high profits, even if they face losses for the next ten years? Why should I pay corporate income tax when dividends and income are taxed anyway? Corporate income tax also seems to heavily influence business strategies as a consequence, which wasn't its intended purpos…

The world of tax is complex. Business exist in many shapes and sizes. So...

- because companies heavily use government resources like roads and stuff.

- because losses can be offset against profits. These tend to be middled out over multiple years. You can port losses to other years.

- a lot of companies (holdings etc.) don't pay out income tax and are basically just letterbox companies. These companies need to pay tax on dividends otherwise they would literally pay zero tax.