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Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

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Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#81

Post by caetris2 »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #80
caetris2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've absolutely nailed it here, I agree. To make any progress at all at the tremendously difficult problem they are trying to solve, they need to be frank about just how far away they are from what it is they are marketing. I am whole-heartedly in support of commercial interests to drum of awareness and engagement by the authors. This is definitely a cool thing to be working on, however, what does make more sense i…

It would however be very interesting to see these kinds of agents in a commercial video game. Yes they are shallow in their perception of the game world. But they’re a big step up from the status quo.

Yes... Imagine a blog post at the same quality as this paper that framed their work and their pursuits in a way that genuinely got people excited about what could be around the corner, but with the context that frames exactly how far away they are from achieving what would be the ultimate vision.

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#82

Post by aspenmayer »

com2kid wrote: post #23
Tiberium wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I should've clarified - I don't want to fight against them, I just want to watch and sometimes interfere to see how the agents react ;) A god game like WorldBox/Galimulator, if you will. Or observer mode in tons of games like almost all Paradox ones.

I'm working on something similar, https://www.generativestorytelling.ai/tinyllmtown/index.html a small town where all NPCs are simulated using a small LLM. They react to everything the hero does, which means no more killing a dragon and having no one even mention it. Once I release it, I'll have it simulate 4 hours every 2 hours or so of real time, and visitors can vote on what quest the hero undertakes next. The sim…

This description reminded me of Dwarf Fortress. You might look into how the AI in it works to see if it gives you any ideas about how emergent behaviors can interact?

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#83

Post by [deleted] »

bbor wrote: post #64
ytss wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that “learnings” is also a word that could be applied in this context. It seems to me “learnings” would actually be less ambiguous than “lessons”. A lesson brings to mind a thing being taught, not just learned.

Let’s take this learning offline and circle back during the next sync, team

[deleted]

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#84

Post by int_19h »

Tiberium wrote: post #13
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly I'm really excited about this. I've always dreamed of full blown sandbox games with extremely advanced NPCs (which the current LLMs can already kinda emulate), but on the bigger scale. I don't believe that you want this. Even really good players don't have a chance against super-advanced NPCs (think how chess grandmasters have barely any chance against modern chess programs running on a fast computer). You…

Oh, I should've clarified - I don't want to fight against them, I just want to watch and sometimes interfere to see how the agents react ;) A god game like WorldBox/Galimulator, if you will. Or observer mode in tons of games like almost all Paradox ones.

What I want is for someone to remake this, but with modern AI and a vast interactive environment typical of a modern open world game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majesty:_The_Fantasy_Kingdom_S...

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#85

Post by ekianjo »

grugagag wrote: post #44
farias0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean we're not there in simulating an actual human brain? Sure. But we're seeing AI work like a human well enough to be useful, isn't that the point?

Not if we’re pretending it is any inteligent. Other than that I’m all in for new utility to come out from it. But I do see a lot of tangents off technology with claims to something it is not. I have no problem of calling that out. Why do you mind? Just ignore me if Im holding your enthusiasm back, there’s plenty of sources to provide that for you.

> Not if we’re pretending it is any inteligent.

We have been shifting the definition of what it means to be intelligent every 3 months following the advances of LLM...

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#86

Post by Animats »

Philpax wrote: post #79
Reubend wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I haven't looked into this much so far but I am extremely skeptical of the claims being made here. For one agent to become a tax collector and another to challenge the tax regime without such behavior being hard coded would be extremely impressive.

They were assigned roles to examine the spread of information and behaviour. The agents pay tax into a chest, as decreed by the (dynamic) rules. There are agents assigned to the roles of pro- and anti-tax influencers; agents in proximity to these influencers would change their own behaviour appropriately, including voting for changes in the tax. So yes, they didn't take on these roles organically, but no, they weren'…

It's not clear what actually happened. They're using Minecraft. Why is there not video?

People have tried groups of AI agents inside virtual worlds before. Google has a project.[1] Stanford has a project.[2] Those have video.

A real question is whether they are anthropomorphizing a dumb system too much.

[1] https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/sima-generalist-ai-age...

[2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/04/surpr...

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#88

Post by fhe »

bob1029 wrote: post #70

I feel like there is some kind of information theory constraint which confounds our ability to extract higher order behavior from multiple instances of the same LLM. I spent quite a bit of time building a multi agent simulation last year and wound up at the same conclusion every day - this is all just a roundabout form of prompt engineering. Perhaps it is useful as a mental model, but you can flatten the whole thing…

so well put. exactly how I've been feeling and trying to verbalize.

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#89

Post by aspenmayer »

bitwize wrote: post #39

I'm reminded of Dwarf Fortress, which simulates thousands of years of dwarf world time, the changing landscapes and the rise and fall and rise and fall of dwarf kingdoms, then drops seven player-controlled dwarves on the map and tells the player "have fun!" It'd be a useful toy model perhaps for identifying areas of investigation to see if it can predict behavior of real civilizations, but I'm not seeing any AI break…

> Maybe when Project Sid 6.7 comes out...

In case anyone is wondering, this is a reference to the movie Virtuosity (1995). I thought it was a few years later, considering the content. It’s a good watch if you like 90s cyberpunk movies.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114857/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuosity

Re: Project Sid: Many-agent simulations toward AI civilization

#90

Post by mistermann »

ekianjo wrote: post #85
grugagag wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we’re pretending it is any inteligent. Other than that I’m all in for new utility to come out from it. But I do see a lot of tangents off technology with claims to something it is not. I have no problem of calling that out. Why do you mind? Just ignore me if Im holding your enthusiasm back, there’s plenty of sources to provide that for you.

> Not if we’re pretending it is any inteligent. We have been shifting the definition of what it means to be intelligent every 3 months following the advances of LLM...

There's also this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-world_assumption

I wonder, once LLM's exceed Humans beyond some substantial threshold, will it crack the simulation allowing us to get back in the game again.

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