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Learning to Learn

kevin.the.li

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Re: Learning to Learn

#81

Post by zelphirkalt »

apwell23 wrote: post #67
kashunstva wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My own learning project - learn Medicine "on the side". It seems ludcirous that we give up the keys to our health to doctors just so we don't have to learn 2 years of courses. Am going to fix that! While I admire the drive to become knowledgeable in the field of medicine outside of a professional curriculum in the disciplines, I’m not aware of any curriculum that proposes competency as a medical doctor in two years…

Can you tell me why doctors are totally useless in diagnosing extremely common issues like acid reflux. Why do GI specialists have no freaking clue what is causing acid reflux. Why do they not know what how exactly my a1c is relevant to heart disease instead of just prescribing me a statin. I personally know couple of doctors who themselves are clueless in fixing their own chronic conditions. Let alone helping someon…

Studied long time ago / studied once and then forgotten / no interest in getting updated / no proper channels for getting updated / ...

Any of those could be a reason.

Re: Learning to Learn

#82

Post by wordpad25 »

paldepind2 wrote: post #65

I agree with the blog post that learning how to learn is an important skill. But the post offers very little beyond a few tips on how to actually achieve that. For people interested in actually learning how to learn I'd recommend the book "Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning", which offers a lot of details on this topic based on actual scientific research.

that book seems to be very inline with cutting edge research on learning, thanks

book summary

"Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning" Summary:

Key Premise: Effective learning strategies differ from common study methods like rereading and cramming, which provide an illusion of mastery but lead to poor retention.

Main Learning Principles:

Retrieval Practice: Actively recalling information strengthens memory and makes learning more durable. Self-quizzing is more effective than passive review.

Spaced Repetition: Spacing out learning sessions over time leads to better retention than cramming.

Interleaved Practice: Mixing different types of problems or subjects during study sessions improves learning compared to studying one topic in blocks.

Elaboration: Explaining ideas in your own words and connecting them to existing knowledge improves understanding.

Generation: Attempting to solve a problem before being shown the solution enhances learning.

Reflection: Reviewing what you’ve learned and considering how it applies to your life strengthens learning.

Varied Learning: Learning in different contexts and environments makes the knowledge more adaptable and versatile.

Key Takeaways:

Rethink study habits: Active learning techniques outperform passive ones.

Learning is more effective when it's effortful—embrace challenges.

Long-term retention relies on consistent, spaced, and active engagement with material.

Re: Learning to Learn

#83

Post by timacles »

apwell23 wrote: post #67
kashunstva wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My own learning project - learn Medicine "on the side". It seems ludcirous that we give up the keys to our health to doctors just so we don't have to learn 2 years of courses. Am going to fix that! While I admire the drive to become knowledgeable in the field of medicine outside of a professional curriculum in the disciplines, I’m not aware of any curriculum that proposes competency as a medical doctor in two years…

Can you tell me why doctors are totally useless in diagnosing extremely common issues like acid reflux. Why do GI specialists have no freaking clue what is causing acid reflux. Why do they not know what how exactly my a1c is relevant to heart disease instead of just prescribing me a statin. I personally know couple of doctors who themselves are clueless in fixing their own chronic conditions. Let alone helping someon…

Because there are 12 different "causes" that are all very subtle and are highly influenced by your diet and behavior etc.

Doctors also never want to admit they dont know the answer to something

Re: Learning to Learn

#84

Post by sofixa »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #77
setgree wrote: post #75

Something from Andrej Karpathy on learning that stuck with me [0]: > Learning is not supposed to be fun. It doesn't have to be actively not fun either, but the primary feeling should be that of effort. It should look a lot less like that "10 minute full body" workout from your local digital media creator and a lot more like a serious session at the gym. You want the mental equivalent of sweating. It's not that the qu…

Judging from his name, he has been struck with post-soviet spirit of doom and gloom.

He was born in '86 in Slovakia, so he probably doesn't remember much of the late communist and early post-communist times.

Re: Learning to Learn

#85

Post by BlackjackCF »

timacles wrote: post #83
apwell23 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell me why doctors are totally useless in diagnosing extremely common issues like acid reflux. Why do GI specialists have no freaking clue what is causing acid reflux. Why do they not know what how exactly my a1c is relevant to heart disease instead of just prescribing me a statin. I personally know couple of doctors who themselves are clueless in fixing their own chronic conditions. Let alone helping someon…

Because there are 12 different "causes" that are all very subtle and are highly influenced by your diet and behavior etc. Doctors also never want to admit they dont know the answer to something

Yikes. No. If you have doctors who aren’t honest with you or honest about when they need to do more research to understand more, get the hell away and find someone else. I know not everyone has that choice, but if you do… please find a doctor who will level with you and you can trust. You do not want to get Dr. Deathed.

Re: Learning to Learn

#86

Post by cloverich »

setgree wrote: post #75

Something from Andrej Karpathy on learning that stuck with me [0]: > Learning is not supposed to be fun. It doesn't have to be actively not fun either, but the primary feeling should be that of effort. It should look a lot less like that "10 minute full body" workout from your local digital media creator and a lot more like a serious session at the gym. You want the mental equivalent of sweating. It's not that the qu…

A counter point, or maybe complementary point (b/c I agree w/ the quote). I killed myself trying to do more than 8 pull ups in a gym for ages; at times I'd be going to the gym 4x a week doing full body workouts, always working hard, always sweating, always gassed at the end; consistently doing pull ups to exhaustion on multiple sets. Yet 8 was a kind of ceiling. At some point I stopped working out, but got a pull up bar at home. I stuck it in my office doorway. I would do occasional pull ups -- never more than 2-3, usually only 1. But just casually a few times a day, nearly every day, when I walked by it. It was never hard, it never felt like work. It became more of a way to briefly relax, an alternative to the cigarettes I used to smoke. Well after a year of that when someone challenged me to a friendly pull up competition, I was shocked that I could do 15 in a row easily, I still had more in the tank even. That always stuck with me because it taught me that while hard work is important, consistency is _more_ important. Working "hard" as such is often not only not required, but perhaps often not actually the thing that will help.

Re: Learning to Learn

#87

Post by zer0tonin »

setgree wrote: post #75

Something from Andrej Karpathy on learning that stuck with me [0]: > Learning is not supposed to be fun. It doesn't have to be actively not fun either, but the primary feeling should be that of effort. It should look a lot less like that "10 minute full body" workout from your local digital media creator and a lot more like a serious session at the gym. You want the mental equivalent of sweating. It's not that the qu…

This is complete bs.

I've learned 2 languages to fluency by mostly watching movies. I've learned the linux cli by setting up a minecraft server for my friends in high school. I've learned programming by making IRC (and later Discord) bots for communities I was part of.

All of this was fun, and it worked better than staring at a textbook and hoping that my "effort" pays off.

Re: Learning to Learn

#88

Post by cloverich »

erganemic wrote: post #74

Contra to a lot of what's being said in this thread, I think a lot of smart people get stuck in the trap of overvaluing quality of input relative to quantity of input. Put another way: the bitter lesson applies to the AI inside your skull too.

Relatedly, it took me a while to appreciate that seeking out and organizing the best knowledge on a topic is, for me, just a form a procrastination. Its ok if I'm doing it for fun. But if I want to learn, the key seems to be that every single day I start the day learning or reinforcing something, and do no other activity until that one is completed. A somewhat related thing I learned in medical school, is that many people have an internal cue for when you've really learned something. When you have re-visited something for the nth time, and the feeling you have is a deep level of annoyance that you are rehashing the same thing again, that is usually the signal that it will stick. May not work for all but worked well for me and the folks I shared it with.

Re: Learning to Learn

#89

Post by bityard »

zer0tonin wrote: post #87
setgree wrote: post #75

Something from Andrej Karpathy on learning that stuck with me [0]: > Learning is not supposed to be fun. It doesn't have to be actively not fun either, but the primary feeling should be that of effort. It should look a lot less like that "10 minute full body" workout from your local digital media creator and a lot more like a serious session at the gym. You want the mental equivalent of sweating. It's not that the qu…

This is complete bs. I've learned 2 languages to fluency by mostly watching movies. I've learned the linux cli by setting up a minecraft server for my friends in high school. I've learned programming by making IRC (and later Discord) bots for communities I was part of. All of this was fun, and it worked better than staring at a textbook and hoping that my "effort" pays off.

I think there is some conflation in this thread between "learning" and "practice" which are fairly different things.

As an ADHD person, nothing shovels the dopamine into my neural receptors quite like going from zero to "knows enough to be dangerous" in a new hobby or field of knowledge. That's the fun part. But climbing the experience curve much further than that requires some amount of _deliberate_ study and beyond that deliberate _practice_ and experience in order to become something like an expert.

Chasing questions down rabbit-holes is fast and entertaining but only takes you so far. Deliberate practice (studying) is mostly less fun, even when that thing is your life-long passion and/or career. But necessary if you want to be highly skilled in that area.

Re: Learning to Learn

#90

Post by cjbgkagh »

cloverich wrote: post #86
setgree wrote: post #75

Something from Andrej Karpathy on learning that stuck with me [0]: > Learning is not supposed to be fun. It doesn't have to be actively not fun either, but the primary feeling should be that of effort. It should look a lot less like that "10 minute full body" workout from your local digital media creator and a lot more like a serious session at the gym. You want the mental equivalent of sweating. It's not that the qu…

A counter point, or maybe complementary point (b/c I agree w/ the quote). I killed myself trying to do more than 8 pull ups in a gym for ages; at times I'd be going to the gym 4x a week doing full body workouts, always working hard, always sweating, always gassed at the end; consistently doing pull ups to exhaustion on multiple sets. Yet 8 was a kind of ceiling. At some point I stopped working out, but got a pull up…

That’s a reasonably well known strategy to pull-ups. Start at one regularly and slowly build up once it becomes easy enough to do so.

I think learning is more like growing plants, you don’t need to get everything perfect, or even one thing perfect, but a set of things to good enough.

There are a lot of things that interfere with learning so the presence of those will inhibit learning regardless of effort.

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