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Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

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Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#81

Post by Dalewyn »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #50
Dalewyn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand how someone can be barred from an airline because they got a better deal on it. Because they cause a truly stupid amount of inefficiencies and hassle with their desire to save a buck at the cost of everyone else. I think American Airlines's marketing and legal teams dropped the ball as far as how they impressed the court of public opinion, as demonstrated by this very thread. "We couldn't make mor…

I get your point. I've watched the enlightening presentation given at MIT by an airline economist where he explains that for any route, there's no single fare that would make the route profitable. To have the convenience of modern air travel, we seemingly have to put up with the pricing games that make it possible. I've never intentionally skiplagged, but there was one time the first leg of my journey was late, I mis…

>there was one time the first leg of my journey was late, I missed my connection and I was going to be in the airport for 8 or 10 hours to catch my 1 hour flight to my final destination. I decided not to, and instead minimized my misery and bought a ticket for the 3.5 hour train ride home.

Two things:

1. That connection miss is strictly on the airline and they did the best they could to make ends meet. An airline worth their salt will bend backwards to make sure you are made whole as practicality allows if things like delays mess up the plans.

2. If you choose to not take them up on the rebookings, that's fine. You should at least let them know you won't be showing up, though.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#82

Post by euroderf »

perihelions wrote: post #48

I'm astonished it's currently legal for airlines to ban passengers for optimizing their ticket fares—for taking the offers the airlines themselves publicly tender, and being too competent at choosing at the best one. - "American reportedly removed a 17-year-old from a flight last year and banned him for three years when he tried to fly from Gainesville, Florida, to Charlotte, North Carolina, on a ticket with a final…

Clearly there is no space under the law for common sense. They are in conflict.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#83

Post by Dalewyn »

smashah wrote: post #52
Dalewyn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand how someone can be barred from an airline because they got a better deal on it. Because they cause a truly stupid amount of inefficiencies and hassle with their desire to save a buck at the cost of everyone else. I think American Airlines's marketing and legal teams dropped the ball as far as how they impressed the court of public opinion, as demonstrated by this very thread. "We couldn't make mor…

Skipping a queue in traffic is an asshole thing to do, but we in a society give them the benefit of the doubt because we don't know what they're going through. It inconveniences literally everyone, yet it would be weird for the driver to be blocked from that road for doing so. We shouldn't accept arbitrary restrictions from stupid megacorps. I studied Aviation engineering with Pilot studies and am also a frequent fly…

>legitimate reasons to skiplag? i.e they cannot afford the full fare,

Air travel is a privilege, not a right. If you can't afford a ticket, don't fucking buy it.

>they cannot make the following flight for other reasons?

Sure, but that's not skiplagging.

>Being on a megacorps side against consumers is strange behaviour.

I am siding with common decency. If you lie in the course of business just to save some pretty pennies, costing everyone else in the process, you are a scumbag and you deserve whatever comes your way.

If skiplagging becomes more common, airlines will ultimately raise prices for everyone to make up for the inefficiency and everyone loses. Screw that noise.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#84

Post by BrenBarn »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #57
blactuary wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and since they routinely oversell flights, I have zero sympathy for them. Negative sympathy even

Do you think ticket prices should be lower, or higher? What remedy do you prefer to achieve your goal?

Lower profits for airlines.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#85

Post by teo_zero »

exabrial wrote: post #13

Funny, in the rental market, most states literally _very enthusiastically_ enforce a housing regulation where is staunchly illegal charge rent to two people for the same property, regardless of whatever contracts they've signed. So you know, how the airlines might book 103% of capacity on a plane? oh yeah, straight to jail. Guy signed a lease and defaulted, you find a substitute renter and you don't cancel the origin…

Houses are perhaps the exception, because hotel rooms, b&b's, cars, and many other rentals that are sold as services don't benefit from the same protection. I'd postulate it's because a house is not considered replaceable with another one or with a refund, while car rides, flights and short-term accommodations are.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#86

Post by teo_zero »

jmward01 wrote: post #38
nneonneo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t even think it’s a “wealthier clientele” thing. Some routes are literally subsidized - for example, the Essential Air Service program pays airlines to run flights to places that would otherwise be unprofitable to fly to, and due to the grants the airlines can offer the complete route for (relatively) cheap. So, for example, it might be expensive to fly New York to Chicago, but subsidized (and cheaper) to fly N…

The missing point in your argument though is that the people doing this didn't want to go to the destination. So if this wasn't an option, getting off before the subsidized destination, they wouldn't be flying anyway and the airline still wouldn't be getting the subsidy. I'm still not seeing any real answer how this practice can exist in a true free market and how it doesn't indicate collusion in the airline industry…

In the A->B->C example, probably the subsidy they get for B->C is so much higher than its real cost that they can use such "profit" to finance part of the first leg. If you skip the final leg, you risk spoiling their scheme to extract more-than-needed money from the government.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#87

Post by teo_zero »

hilux wrote: post #71
grakker wrote: post #44

I really, really don't understand the airlines' problem with this. The seat was paid for, if nobody is in it, they save a fraction of a penny on fuel. What do they lose if the seat is empty vs the person still sitting in it? They get the exact same revenue. I'm so confused.

They lose out on selling more expensive fares.

Then why on earth did they accept to sell me the cheaper fare?

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#88

Post by CogitoCogito »

Dalewyn wrote: post #78
someluccc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“As someone familiar with the aviation industry” you should know people “skiplagging” won’t check bags, which destroys your whole argument since that’s where all the inefficiencies lie. Now you just have a no-show at the gate (P>50% ? something they’re surely used to handle efficiently) giving them some slack to fly their overbook flight without having to bump anyone. Truly a win-win

>you should know people “skiplagging” won’t check bags The point is that a no-show still causes hassle, and in this case hassle that didn't have to happen. Shit happens, if you turn into a no-show due to factors outside your control nobody's gonna be angry. But if you are a deliberate no-show? All because you wanted to shave some cost? Sincerely fuck you. >that’s where all the inefficiencies lie No.

Airlines choose these ticketing policies and customers react to them rationally. If the airlines allowed customers to notify them that they won't be taking the final flight without any extra costs, then they wouldn't have to worry about no-shows like this (they could even resell the seat).

The airlines are choosing their pricing mechanisms and can live with the consequences.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#89

Post by Dalewyn »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #88
Dalewyn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you should know people “skiplagging” won’t check bags The point is that a no-show still causes hassle, and in this case hassle that didn't have to happen. Shit happens, if you turn into a no-show due to factors outside your control nobody's gonna be angry. But if you are a deliberate no-show? All because you wanted to shave some cost? Sincerely fuck you. >that’s where all the inefficiencies lie No.

Airlines choose these ticketing policies and customers react to them rationally. If the airlines allowed customers to notify them that they won't be taking the final flight without any extra costs, then they wouldn't have to worry about no-shows like this (they could even resell the seat). The airlines are choosing their pricing mechanisms and can live with the consequences.

>customers react to them rationally

There is nothing rational about maliciously misleading someone in a business transaction.

>If the airlines allowed customers to notify them that they won't be taking the final flight without any extra costs,

You absolutely can: Just walk up to the nearest ticketing counter on your way out the airport and let them know you won't be flying. Simple, done. You might still get blacklisted, but you are presumably okay with the consequences.

Re: Jury awards American Airline $9.4M from website behind 'skiplagging' hack

#90

Post by exe34 »

m463 wrote: post #12
wongarsu wrote: post #7

> Skiplagging is not illegal, but airlines view it as a policy violation that is grounds for termination of a traveler’s entire itinerary since the airline can't sell the empty seat in the onward flight. The poor airline, unable to sell an empty seat because ... checks notes ... the seat is already sold to someone, and that person decided not to show up. Truly the horror. Just think of all the revenue the airline los…

Maybe the site should rebrand itself. Tell people to get off if the meal on the next leg is ... checks notes... a safety hazard.

you can develop allergies at any point in life after all, so it would make sense.
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