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Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
81–90 of 109 posts
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#82> “To provide access to every human, we need more Orbs. Lots more Orbs. Probably on the order of a thousand times more Orbs than we have today,” Heley said. “Not only more Orbs but more Orbs in more places.” What a blob of a thing to say. And ‘access’ isn’t even a thing people want. There’s few companies I hope for bankruptcy and this is one of them
> And ‘access’ isn’t even a thing people want
They will want to access orb if orb is needed to maintain daily live in some dystopian version of the future:)
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#83I've not researched how this works, but this definitely feels like one of those things where if you dig deep enough into it, it boils down to "we verify your 'humanness' by checking that there's your biometric data signed by our private key, for which the public key is hardcoded everywhere, so trust us please".
It actually uses a lot of modern cryptography (zero knowledge proofs, multiparty computation, decentralized consensus, etc) to avoid exactly that.
Rather, to obscure exactly that.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#84Someone is gonna reverse engineer their orb and add a couple thousand fake people with fake biometrics to the database - or just pay people to borrow their WorldID.
I feel like the former could probably be avoided if they use an ORWL-PC-like thing to ensure that an on-device generated private key can’t be extracted, and use some kind of like, video recording from multiple cameras to demonstrate that the construction of the device didn’t differ from the standard, and showing the public key it produced, and had such footage signed by trusted parties, as part of the like, certifica…
If there is a problem with trust, in human-made technologies there will always be a link in the chain where trust can be violated by a human; the higher up the chain the link, the bigger the impact of the violation.
On the other hand, if there is no problem with trust (humans are all nice to each other), then trying to enforce trust through the straightjacket of Worldcoin and other blockchain technologies is a complete waste of resources.
And it’s more than just waste. There is a well-known labeling effect in psychology, where the way people are treated affects the way they act by making them subconsciously adapt to what is expected of them. (If you are treated as if you were dumb as a student, your actual capability and intelligence may not even matter: unless you happen to be sociopathic enough—no judgement, welcome to the club—it becomes your persona; later, every verification in daily life is a subtle invitation into the mind of those abusing the system and benefitting from it enough to warrant the extra checks.) It always makes me think about the implications of such technologies becoming part of the fabric of society where all humans are treated as inherently untrustworthy.
Making it more difficult to violate trust, with appropriately increased payoff, is never the solution—it only raises the incentives. The solution is to work with humans, understand what causes us to want to violate it in the first place, and treat them as inherently trustoworthy by allowing violation at lower levels where the impact is smaller.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#85I've not researched how this works, but this definitely feels like one of those things where if you dig deep enough into it, it boils down to "we verify your 'humanness' by checking that there's your biometric data signed by our private key, for which the public key is hardcoded everywhere, so trust us please".
It actually uses a lot of modern cryptography (zero knowledge proofs, multiparty computation, decentralized consensus, etc) to avoid exactly that.
So what is the root of trust in this system then?
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You stand in front of the Orb. The Orb scans your biometric data and stores it in Sam's Database (Sam says he doesn't own the database, something something blockchain good of humanity - but Sam doesn't "own" OpenAI either). Once the Orb gathers enough people's biometrics, the Orb will become the gatekeeper for transactions. The Orb will verify your identity and humanity. Sam's Database will be more precise than your…
> National governments will use Sam's Database to assign Universal Basic Income Didn't the big UBI study come to the conclusion that UBI didn't work (meaning, folks in the control group without UBI were better off at the end of the study than those who received it)? Honest question ; I'm fuzzy on the details.
I mean besides that everything else in OPs comment checks out.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, it was very obviously going to produce landgrab dynamics. Like... it would be utterly astounding for someone not to see that from day one.
You say that, but I remember the talk in 2009-2011 being about replacing Visa, not about hodling and speculation.
Right, which was a mixture of dishonesty, self-delusion, and naivety from the start.
A deflationary asset will only ever be used for hodling and speculation.
Also, Visa works almost literally flawlessly for tens of billions of dollars of transactions (hundreds of millions of individual transactions) every day. A technologically inferior system wasn’t going to replace it regardless of its ideological purity.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, kind of. It's also a physical thing that you stand in front of to give up a bunch of biometric information to go in some database somewhere for...some reason that is unspecified. The fact that they're doing it "for free" suggests to me that there is some purpose to it that makes it profitable in spite of the costs. Given how much everyone's data is actually worth, I suspect that the reason it's free is because…
> some reason that is unspecified. Their end goal is for you to need this to use the internet. > something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI. https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...
If that goal is actually achieved, then the internet instantly becomes a tool I can no longer use.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
You won't have a choice depending on what it will gatekeep, just like how at the moment web users can't opt out of being fingerprinted [1] and data intercepted by Cloudflare when they want to visit their favourite site or have to live with never having root access to their phones if they want to use their bank's mobile app. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/turnstile-ephemeral-ids-for-frau...
It is more like how you can't opt out of an okta app, cisco vpn on your phone etc. if you want a job. Speaking of which I suspect these sort of companies not World will win this race. It wont be a new product for them. It is just a new feature.
> It is more like how you can't opt out of an okta app, cisco vpn on your phone etc. if you want a job.
Huh? I've never needed any apps of those natures (or any apps at all) to get and keep jobs.
Re: Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
#90I get that this solution is distasteful. But verifying humanity on the Internet is a real problem that is getting harder and more important very quickly. CAPTCHAs aren't going to work much longer. What is a solution that people can live with?
This is a solution I could put up with as long as it wasn't being run by a company (and especially not an SV-type company, and doubly so with Worldcoin specifically). That requires me to have a ton more trust in them than I can summon.
If we have to have something like this, I want it to be run by governments instead. Governments already have our identity information anyway, so I wouldn't be leaking any data to a new entity, and if the government is remotely democratic in nature, the citizenry has more say in how things are done than they do with companies.