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Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

subvert.fm

81–90 of 140 posts

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly plenty of poorly designed crypto things also have that point of control, They all have. They just claim they can work against social dynamics with technology but that's a fool errand.

Several technologies have managed it. The printing press, the vaccine, the nuclear bomb. It's even crazier to not try.

Wait, what? Are you comparing cryptocrap with vaccines?!?

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I'm not affiliated with Subvert and in reading the docs I find their arguments about the "problem" with Bandcamp extremely weak/hypothetical and stated over and over again without any evidence. I am skeptical that they understand the economics of running a music retail site and think they might find that the cut Bandcamp takes is actually pretty fair for the value bands get. And I also don't really ge…

The problem with Bandcamp is neither hypothetical or weak. The problem is that its been sold twice, and is now owned by a company who attempted to fire anyone who tried to unionise, which is a red flag. Will bandcamp be sold again? Yes, very very likely. So that is exactly the problem.

First of all, "attempted to fire anyone who tried to unionise" is entirely made up. They laid off fully half the company; it wasn't targeted at all. Second, the "very likely" part about it being sold is hypothetical, and the follow-on effect of that being bad for artists is doubly hypothetical. As of right now, the service is exactly as it was back when it was "the anti-spotify" that everyone was in love with. It was owned by someone trying to make money before and it's owned by someone trying to make money now. If this is the dread enshittification, please enshittify all over me. Or admit that this isn't enshittification, it's just a fear of what might happen.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it have a single point of control that will attract corruption if enough of us start using it? By opposition to crypto, which attracts distributed corruption when enough people use the project? I'm being glib, but complaining that a project not using crypto makes it inherently unsafe is pretty rich.

It's not really a complaint about the project itself. I'm actually considering paying the $100 to be a member because I think they're attempting to address an important problem and I want to see how it goes and it would probably be more fun to do so as an owner. But you've got to admit that its a peculiar rhetorical choice to explain at the landing page that your strategy doesn't involve coupling ownership/control of…

It does the normal thing instead: using a legal system to define and enforce ownership and control.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#84
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart contracts only affects on-chain stuff, and this deals with real-world things. No smart contract is going to help you if webmasters update website, or if a board decides to add a rule. See also: NFT delisting.

When I imagine using crypto for this problem, the on-chain portion is a registry of hashes (for the songs) which maps them to addresses which I can send money to and then the contract multiplexes the money out to the appropriate people. So if it's one dude with a guitar and a microphone, 100% goes to him. But if it's a remix of a remix of a remix, then maybe that money gets split 50 ways. I don't know if I need a web…

That's not how music gets paid out. You have the label, publisher and PRO/CMO. The actual amounts depend on both where the purchaser is at the time of purchase and where the payouts go to.

There's a reason there are so few players, it's complicated once you go international. I would suggest going after the massive corpus of laws, but most are the to protect artists... they just do it in very different ways, and often pre-date the Internet.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#85
post #72

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

> Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the music people create sucks This - as a listener, quality is the hard problem. It is encouraging that the proposal affirms the value of curative functions (like labels). As an artist, I actually don’t really care about music’s commercial problems - I’m more annoyed by the constraints on musical art objects inherent in all music platforms. Like, experiencing art ob…

I think I have seen folks use rateyourmusic.com to get partway there already...

> The thing I would really love is a music platform that feels like a hosting platform, not a marketplace. Where a user can simultaneously act as a listener, an artist, a curator or a critic.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I imagine using crypto for this problem, the on-chain portion is a registry of hashes (for the songs) which maps them to addresses which I can send money to and then the contract multiplexes the money out to the appropriate people. So if it's one dude with a guitar and a microphone, 100% goes to him. But if it's a remix of a remix of a remix, then maybe that money gets split 50 ways. I don't know if I need a web…

What would happen if somebody forgets or loses the key? Reality: there's nothing that blockchain does better than an Excel sheet.

Saying something is "reality" doesn't make it so.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#87
Listeners want the convenience of Spotify and don’t care about artists or even know what Bandcamp is, let alone something after Bandcamp. I’m an indie artist and I want things to be different but until you convince people to give up convenience for principles, projects like this won’t mean much.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#88
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart contracts only affects on-chain stuff, and this deals with real-world things. No smart contract is going to help you if webmasters update website, or if a board decides to add a rule. See also: NFT delisting.

But it possible to host a website almost on blockchain (see TON Sites as example) and withdraw certain modification permissions once the contract in launched. It seems to me that it is possible to implement fully decentralized bandcamp-like site.

I’ve yet to see any useful product built on top of crypto. Can you name any?

(Not including things that just make early adopters rich or simply provide services to other crypto related projects).

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#89

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

I'm surprised at this. I find music discovery easy. Some tips:

On Bandcamp: in addition to obviously following artists I like, I follow several fan accounts of those artists, then I can see what they buy. I also try to sample the Bandcamp album of the day.

On NTS.live I have a bunch of favourite hosts and try to listen to every show they release, and note the track listing. Too many to ever get through.

Podcasts: NPR All Songs Considered, and Resident Advisor when I can.

On Apple Music there's the algorithm. Hit or miss.

Back in the heydays of music blogs I would find a lot of great stuff on Hype Machine, but alas, I think those days are gone.

Just with these few sources I find there is far too much great new music to get through in one lifetime. Godspeed!

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#90
post #86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen if somebody forgets or loses the key? Reality: there's nothing that blockchain does better than an Excel sheet.

Saying something is "reality" doesn't make it so.

Care to name a few industries transformed by the blockchain?

And no, payments for ransomware don't count. Illicit payments for CSAM and drugs also are not an example I'm looking for. And no, international sanctions busting is not a good example either. The same goes for Ponzi schemes.

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