Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 166 posts

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#81

Post by HDThoreaun »

tivert wrote: post #66
jffry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meta [...] usually feeds staff for free from canteens at its larger offices, including its sprawling Silicon Valley headquarters. But those at smaller sites are given daily credits to order food through delivery services such as UberEats and Grubhub. Daily allowances include $20 for breakfast, $25 for lunch and $25 for dinner. So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point

> So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point I always thought that stuff (along with the snacks) was a ploy to keep employees working longer hours. Needing to get food/coffee/whatever is a transition that can allow people to decide to disengage from work. A strategically placed coffee station can prevent a longer trip to the cafeteria or a coffee shop, and free food in the cafe…

Of course it is. That doesnt mean it isnt also a perk. I am happy that my office has coffee even though it also benefits my employer with the increased productivity. Same with lunch, its a win win for the company and the employee.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#82

Post by tzs »

consteval wrote: post #76
xghedrr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Is it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food” Yes. This is called fraud. Even if you feel mega corp X is bad, defrauding mega corp X is… also bad.

So then it must be a better outcome if you buy the maximum allowed amount of food, 70 dollars, and then throw it away? Better yet, buy that food, attempt to pawn it off, and then buy toothpaste. To me, that feels like a much worse outcome, not a better one. I think this demonstrates you need some leniency in these things. Because pettiness breeds pettiness.

How about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#83

Post by consteval »

tzs wrote: post #82
consteval wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then it must be a better outcome if you buy the maximum allowed amount of food, 70 dollars, and then throw it away? Better yet, buy that food, attempt to pawn it off, and then buy toothpaste. To me, that feels like a much worse outcome, not a better one. I think this demonstrates you need some leniency in these things. Because pettiness breeds pettiness.

How about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.

I'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong.

If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that.

If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste.

Constraining yourself to extremely hard and fast rules seems like a good idea on the surface. But it's all about incentives. I can easily make the company bleed much more money while being within their rules. So why even bother?

A touch of leniency and common sense goes a long way.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#84

Post by tivert »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #81
tivert wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point I always thought that stuff (along with the snacks) was a ploy to keep employees working longer hours. Needing to get food/coffee/whatever is a transition that can allow people to decide to disengage from work. A strategically placed coffee station can prevent a longer trip to the cafeteria or a coffee shop, and free food in the cafe…

Of course it is. That doesnt mean it isnt also a perk. I am happy that my office has coffee even though it also benefits my employer with the increased productivity. Same with lunch, its a win win for the company and the employee.

> Same with lunch, its a win win for the company and the employee.

I don't think it's that simple. Sure, on some level it's a win for you (free food) and a win for them (more time spent working), but on another level you might be winning more if the perk wasn't influencing your decision-making to take the employer-preferred path.

I think it's a little more clear when thinking about employer provided dinner, like Facebook apparently provides.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#85

Post by consteval »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #80
consteval wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so then the most optimal outcome is always buying food even if you don't need it, and perhaps even throwing the food away immediately. If your total comes out 22.00, then go ahead and buy 6 ranch dips and bring it up to 25.00. Now, it's not stealing. Does this outcome feel more morally correct to you? I think, if you answer "no", then your logic on how this stealing works is faulty.

If I was meta I wouldnt want to employ people who are interested in stealing from me, especially when I pay them $400,000. The fact that the theft wasnt that bad or that the policy doesnt make the most sense is irrelevant. The company trusts employees to use benefits with responsibility and this dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table" even though hes being paid 400,000

> dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table"

But my logic is correct. If he had just spent it on food he didn't need, he would be in the clear. So then the conclusion must be the policy doesn't work.

The policy is very relevant, in fact it's the only relevant piece of information. You want to prevent stealing? Don't offer your employees stipends. Problem solved, I'll send everyone my invoice.

This is a simple case of having their cake and eating it too. You cannot simultaneously be "generous" and be stingy. Meta intends to keep a certain image, while they maintain actions that contradict that image.

> The company trusts employees to use benefits with responsibility

Correct, the company is being incredibly stupid and naive. They maintain a purely transactional relationship with their employees, and it's in their own best interest to keep that kind of relationship. Such a relationship is not, and will never be, one of "trust" or "morals". The company seemingly forgot what they are.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#86

Post by Etheryte »

consteval wrote: post #85
HDThoreaun wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was meta I wouldnt want to employ people who are interested in stealing from me, especially when I pay them $400,000. The fact that the theft wasnt that bad or that the policy doesnt make the most sense is irrelevant. The company trusts employees to use benefits with responsibility and this dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table" even though hes being paid 400,000

> dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table" But my logic is correct. If he had just spent it on food he didn't need, he would be in the clear. So then the conclusion must be the policy doesn't work. The policy is very relevant, in fact it's the only relevant piece of information. You want to prevent stealing? Don't offer your employees stipends. Problem solved, I'll send everyone my invoice. This is a simp…

What you describe is functionally no different from an employee who goes to the office taking food from the cafeteria home with them to feed the family so they can avoid buying groceries themselves. Surely you can see how that's stealing?

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#87

Post by joezydeco »

jffry wrote: post #9
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people getting weird things like corporate food stamps when they are being paid 400,000 anyway?

> Meta [...] usually feeds staff for free from canteens at its larger offices, including its sprawling Silicon Valley headquarters. But those at smaller sites are given daily credits to order food through delivery services such as UberEats and Grubhub. Daily allowances include $20 for breakfast, $25 for lunch and $25 for dinner. So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point

We use a Doordash voucher as an incentive to go hybrid and come into the office once or twice a week. Seems silly to spend all that time commuting and then you go leave for another 60-90 minutes to get lunch.

At some point it will disappear and go to a hard RTO, but for now it kind of works.

I've seen others ask how is buying toothpaste and wine is possible on a voucher, Doordash definitely does this "add groceries in the next 15 minutes!" thing once you've ordered lunch.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#88

Post by sybercecurity »

autonomousErwin wrote: post #18

Aren't they just finding a good reason to save 400K/year * how many they fire.

Yes, I get the feeling that there were likely other reasons why they wanted the employee gone, but needed a good reason that wouldn't result in a legal complaint.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#89

Post by CraigRo »

I had to watch a video about this issue 20 years ago. If the company can't trust you with small amounts of money, they can't trust you at all. I've seen people forfeit bonuses over smaller infractions- the lesson is don't steal small amounts of money

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#90

Post by r00fus »

Rygian wrote: post #35

Meal money in France is credited (either as vouchers or as a separate credit card-like card) that can only be spent either in restaurants, or to spend in supermarkets. Supermarkets are only allowed to sell a limited list of goods that qualify as meal on that credit, the system is directly integrated in the cash register software.

Yeah, agreed - Meta and other corporations are trying to do what is probably best supported by a government program so obviously they run into limits.

But trying anything like that here is "socialism".

Post reply on HN