Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

nobelprize.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 116 posts

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#81

Post by cyberax »

AlbertCory wrote: post #56
CyberRymden wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Krugman is controversial at times, but he is a serious economist. The quote is also taken out of two important contexts. 1. It was not a serious academic prediction but rather part of a fluff piece by the Times about future precitions. 2. The quote also exists in the context of a debate that was raging during the advent of the internet whether or not the internet would hyper charge productivity and economic growth. I…

> Krugman is controversial at times Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times. He's not "controversial," he's just a bloviator. His credentials as a serious economist expired long ago when he signed up with the leftist team and agreed to never challenge them again, on anything. When you have to spend many words on explaining the "context" in which someone's quotes should be viewed, you are losing.

> Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times.

This is BS. Krugman has very specific theories that made predictions validated by practice.

Remember 2008? He made a prediction that an increase in the monetary base wouldn't cause inflation. This prediction was spectacularly confirmed. He also made a case for fiscal intervention: it wouldn't cause inflation, and it would speed up the recovery. And his prediction again was confirmed.

More recently: he predicted that the inflation spike was transient, due to supply chain issues rather than fundamental changes. And he's again been vindicated.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#82

Post by inglor_cz »

coliveira wrote: post #63
inglor_cz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't read my mind well if you think that I am against China defending itself. Most nations have an army for that purpose. I am against China performing threatening exercises near Taiwan and against China claiming the majority of the South China Sea for themselves when hundreds of millions of other people live on its shores. Ever heard of "the Nine Dashes"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line That has zi…

[flagged]

Does India need to control the Indian Ocean in order to defend itself?

What about Mexico, should it control the Gulf of Mexico? Ireland, the Irish Sea? Etc.

And, by the way, as of 2024, you don't really need to control the entire sea (or even half of it) to prevent the enemy from landing on your shores. Any military worth its cost has a large assortment of missiles for that purpose.

Case in point: Ukraine has unambigously denied the Russians (the Russians!) control of the Black Sea while literally having no navy to speak of. By shooting at them from land. That is how it goes.

Taiwan also doesn't rely on its control of the seas to defend itself. Even the Israeli Navy is comparatively weak. Etc.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#83

Post by blackhawkC17 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #51
CyberRymden wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Krugman is controversial at times, but he is a serious economist. The quote is also taken out of two important contexts. 1. It was not a serious academic prediction but rather part of a fluff piece by the Times about future precitions. 2. The quote also exists in the context of a debate that was raging during the advent of the internet whether or not the internet would hyper charge productivity and economic growth. I…

The lack of visible productivity growth. In particular, it's not as visible as you expect in the GDP statistics . Take TV Guide, for instance. Now, if anybody watches broadcast television, they can use the internet to find out what's on when. Is that better or worse for users than having a paper TV guide? In many ways it's better. But it shows up in the GDP as a negative, because nobody's buying TV Guide any more. Or…

These free things (Wikipedia, Linux, etc.) are sustained by a high GDP that translates to high incomes and, in turn, people willing to donate time and money for them to remain free.

Let's try living in a country with a measly GDP per capita of $1,000 (Rwanda for example) and see how many free things we can get..

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#84

Post by blackhawkC17 »

cherryteastain wrote: post #77
vlovich123 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of punishment authoritarian regimes dish out is much more severe in ways that you couldn’t do in the US (imprisonment, seizure of assets, death). In fact I’d argue it’s the only kind that matters. Authoritarian regimes rarely go after normal people unless they speak out actively against the government (which China does) and instead focus on controlling and censoring anyone in a position of power and let the…

US does all the nasty crap China does. Less brazenly, but it's certainly there. > imprisonment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_cam... The Guantanamo Bay detention camp is a United States military prison...As of August 2024, at least 780 persons from 48 countries have been detained at the camp since its creation, of whom 740 had been transferred elsewhere, 9 died in custody, and 30 remain; onl…

There should be a word for when someone picks the most extreme situation to prove their point.

Yes, the U.S., Europe, and all well-governed democracies aren't perfect, but they're much better than China in that regard.

A litmus test: U.S. and European citizens are free to challenge their leaders, e.g., the recent glut of anti-establishment parties garnering more votes in the EU. Some of these guys are loons, yet they're free to challenge the status quo because that's part of democracy.

Remind me where Xi Jinping and Putin's political opponents end up again? In jail or dead.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#85

Post by coliveira »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #65
coliveira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Taiwan is literally an independent country, although they promote a policy of strategic vagueness about this in hopes that it will discourage China from launching an invasion. The arguments China makes for its ownership of Taiwan are no more defensible, and arguably less, than Portugal's justifications for maintaining ownership of Goa.

It is not a country, just ask the united nations, for example. The US likes to pretend it is, but it won't happen.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#86

Post by doe_eyes »

AlbertCory wrote: post #75
doe_eyes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? Even without searching, I'm sure they back a number of organizations that do endow various awards, scholarships, and so on. I doubt they could come up with a "flagship" one that would be as prestigious as the Nobel Prize, though. Our attitudes toward modern-day "industrialists" and their pet projects…

This seems kinda confused. The Nobel is now controversial because after all, Nobel invented dynamite and he wanted to expunge his guilt. Yet you said it was "prestigious" -- but you want to cancel that, regardless? But somehow the Nobel Prize in Computer Science would be too controversial even given all that. OK, I get that you don't like Bezos-Gates-Zuck-Musk. Maybe you're just jealous.

> The Nobel is now controversial because after all, Nobel invented dynamite and he wanted to expunge his guilt.

It's not controversial for that reason. It's actually a fantastic origin story for the prize, especially since he arranged for it on his deathbed.

> OK, I get that you don't like Bezos-Gates-Zuck-Musk.

Huh?

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#87

Post by nabla9 »

AlbertCory wrote: post #61

The "Nobel Prize in Economics" was not one of the original ones endowed by Alfred Nobel. As the name implies, it was created by a bank. Is there any reason Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Elon Musk can't endow a Prize in Computer Science? That would end the controversy about whether AI is "Physics."

Not being the original does not make it any less meaningful. Repeating the same "Not real Nobel" spiel every time Nobel price in Economics is discussed as it is some kind of refutation is silly.

>Is there any reason

Yes there is. Nobel committee has accepted Nobel in economics as one of the Nobel prices. Its in their website, in their documents and its given out in the same ceremony in Stockholm. Laureates are selected by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences.

"created by a bank "

Sveriges Riksbank is the central bank of Sweden. It's not a just some random private bank.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#88

Post by ManitobaForMe »

cyberax wrote: post #81
AlbertCory wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Krugman is controversial at times Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times. He's not "controversial," he's just a bloviator. His credentials as a serious economist expired long ago when he signed up with the leftist team and agreed to never challenge them again, on anything. When you have to spend many words on explaining the "context" in which someone's quotes should be viewed, you are losing.

> Kind of like saying Lysenko was controversial at times. This is BS. Krugman has very specific theories that made predictions validated by practice. Remember 2008? He made a prediction that an increase in the monetary base wouldn't cause inflation. This prediction was spectacularly confirmed. He also made a case for fiscal intervention: it wouldn't cause inflation, and it would speed up the recovery. And his predict…

[dead]

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#89

Post by coliveira »

cyberax wrote: post #78
coliveira wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The problem is not the army, but military posturing. It can too easily transition into an actual war. Case in point: Russia. Putin's ratings were falling, and he decided to commit "a small victorious war", based on faulty assumptions. And his assumptions were faulty because all the secret agencies were filled with yes-men who were just telling Putin what he wanted to hear. That's the problem with the authoritarian re…

The US starts a new war for posturing every few years. They have the faulty assumption that they can control the world, even as they keep losing wars. So, not a problem unique to Russia.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#90

Post by fekunde »

cjalmeida wrote: post #5

I strongly recommend Acemoglu, Robinson classic book "Why Nations Fail" https://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/d... It's very accessible, no economics background required. Along with Krugman and Kahneman, one of the few economics scholars that take the time to write a book for layman.

After reading "Why Nations Fail", which I really enjoyed, I wondered whether we could develop an LLM with a wide enough context window where I could input the lessons from such books along with data and metrics about a specific country. Then, the AI could prescribe tangible solutions and policy recommendations tailored to that nation's unique situation. I'm curious what an AI system like that might look like. I also wonder if it's possible to experiment with a smaller-scale version of this concept using today's technology.
Post reply on HN