Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#82The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain is a bit different, and we do not know, really, what goes on in there when you take a drug like Psilocybin. Sometimes something gets a little knocked out of place, and the system doesn’t fully recover.
The last time I took a very high dose of psychedelics I couldn’t think straight for a few weeks after. Thoughts came out of nowhere, I had no control over them; often the constant, unceasing flow of thought was distressing and uncomfortable. Thankfully I could still talk to people—talking made me better. I got plenty of sleep, cut out all drugs, even caffiene, got regular exercise and ate a very healthy diet: about a year and a half later I was back to my old habits. But it wasn’t an easy recovery, and certainly not one any psychiatrist could’ve treated adaquetely. But, now I know to be more careful in the future.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
The best thing to do is to consult with a physician on matters related to your health.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#85Not even getting into the side-effects of SSRIs including PSSD, brain zaps, lethargy, and a whole lot more.
I just don't understand people who do this shit recreationally, as it was quite possibly the worst experience I had in my life.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…
Err.. no?
This is from the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment: https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/340001001.pdf
Page 19 onward has the charts. What do do we find at the very low end in terms of chronic and acute toxicity? Shrooms (“paddos”) and LSD.
It always blows my mind how anti-drug people will do a handwavey gesture to the authority of institutes like the FDA, but never actually check up on what actual research says.
> As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects.
Except the multitude of ways you can put yourself into a serotonin coma.
I agree with your assessment that (first) use of psychedelics should be under proper guidance. But what you refer to, “going bad”, can sometimes be a traumatic past experience that people have stuffed away and by surfacing and processing it they can move past it. It’s not always meant to be kumbaya and flowers.
Educate yourself, then talk.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#87Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
The best thing to do is to consult with a physician on matters related to your health.
For example, it took literally two decades after it became well known that peptic ulcers were mostly caused by bacteria for the medical community to embrace giving anti-biotics for GI pain. To this day, there are still many American doctors who don't actually know about the Nobel Prize given in 2000 for this discovery, and claim it's "stress" and tell you to go home. Some claim they "know" but than try to "change your gut PH" and still refuse to give antibiotics due to "superbug" risk.
This is a "small" thing (GI pain is not small to those who have it) - but if the doctors are screwing up such a small thing institutionally, what else do they mess up on?
One is travelers sickness. Doctors in the USA do not want to perscribe front line antibiotics for it because of fear of superbugs - but they'll uncritically go eat their lunch at a McDonalds that same day, where they consume meat bathed in antibiotic slop which is more likely to contribute to superbugs then the amoxicillin that they didn't give you would have.
Or what about right now, when it's become clear that Ozempic is literally a super-drug. Every doctor on earth should be trying to give that stuff to literally anyone.
I can go to "third world countries" with deregulated health systems and get infinitely better care that I have real control over for on the orders of 1 USD (that's how much it cost for me in Thailand to get front line antibiotics for travelers sickness INCLUDING THE DOCTORS VISIT!)
Why do we still sell Neosporin despite doctors wanting it off the market (also for risk of superbugs)? Why do few people in America use Providone-iodine for wound treatment despite it being by far the best solution scientifically for it (and it stains yellow)? Maybe it's because we're stupid. There really aren't better explanations.
What about Circumcision? I'd straight up put doctors who do it in jail and many European nations would do the same. American doctors think circumcision is just fine, and long, deeply bitter swaths of medical ethics journals are dedicated to fighting over this again and again.
Or what about the widespread disagreement over even basic stuff like digital rectal exams? There's no agreement on if they are worth it because often sticking one's hand up the butt of an old man does more damage to them than finding out that they (like everyone else at old age) have benign prostate cancer?
Doctors in America have not earned their position of deference. The scientifically minded on HN who do their own research can and often do know how to treat certain conditions better than white-coats.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could compare against other psychedelics. I’d be interested in that.
You could also test it on severely sleep-deprived experimenters undergoing sensory isolation, but that would never get IRB approval.
https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/septemb...