Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

psycnet.apa.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 137 posts

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#81

Post by Spivak »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #73
Spivak wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very long way of saying "I already believe it's true from anecdotal evidence and so will viscously critique anything that doesn't agree with my position." This paper can be wrong, but you're clearly not open to even the possibility that it's not.

The comment you're replying to is shorter than my original comment where I spitballed five different hypothetical scenarios to explain why the the paper's conclusion could be true? I think there's a solid chance it's true. I also think it's interesting that there's a discrepancy between studies like this and public perception of social media (i.e., that it's bad for kids). So I enjoy trying to feel out that discrepan…

Which is why I said it reads like copium. It seems like you have an unwavering position that social media is bad for people's emotional states and mental health. And when presented some new evidence that challenges this belief your immediate response was to come up with a bunch of ways your core belief could still hold given the new evidence.

That to me isn't coming at it with an open mind or with curiosity. Is it not interesting that there's maybe a different larger effect that explains people's observations?

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#82

Post by concerndc1tizen »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #72
bpodgursky wrote: post #23

I don't want to sound unscientific, but when a paper is directly in conflict with what is obviously true, it's OK to use common sense.

"The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it," - Jeff Bezos

Very reasonable!

The scientific method is so easily abused, that it's only really valuable if the scientist is sincere.

In other words, the scientific method doesn't protect against deceit, it only helps against deceiving yourself, as a scientist.

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#83

Post by lovethevoid »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #28

Skepticism is warranted here (as is the reminder that lack of evidence isn't definitive evidence against ), but I think the specific takeaway is interesting: social media use does not predict mental health problems in youth Which could indicate any number of things: - Social media use by itself doesn't predict mental health problems because kids without mental health problems also use social media. - Social media use…

All good skeptical points, and unfortunately, there isn't a single good study on social media use and teens (that also doesn't completely ignore parents/environments).

So we'll never know for the time being! Unfortunate to those who wanted a definitive answer (or to confirm/deny past beliefs).

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#84

Post by jjulius »

Spivak wrote: post #81
spondylosaurus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you're replying to is shorter than my original comment where I spitballed five different hypothetical scenarios to explain why the the paper's conclusion could be true? I think there's a solid chance it's true. I also think it's interesting that there's a discrepancy between studies like this and public perception of social media (i.e., that it's bad for kids). So I enjoy trying to feel out that discrepan…

Which is why I said it reads like copium. It seems like you have an unwavering position that social media is bad for people's emotional states and mental health. And when presented some new evidence that challenges this belief your immediate response was to come up with a bunch of ways your core belief could still hold given the new evidence. That to me isn't coming at it with an open mind or with curiosity. Is it no…

>Which is why I said it reads like copium to me.

Fixed that for you. It reads like an open mind, or at the very least an attempt at one, to me. Keep on keeping on, OP.

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#85

Post by dmje »

Have there been studies on “time on phones” or “time on devices” rather than social media specifically? Be interested to know of anything solid. My gut says this is where the issue lies rather than with social media specifically, but I’d be interested in any evidence for / against.

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#86

Post by spondylosaurus »

diggan wrote: post #44
joemazerino wrote: post #37

The APA has lost it's credibility some time ago with it's political stances. It doesn't take a researcher to see a correlation between phone time and youth issues.

> The APA has lost it's credibility some time ago with it's political stances. Ah, lost their credibility since 1960? Isn't there entire point of the APA "Council of Representatives" to issue policy statements on things like abortion, the rights of mentally ill, human trafficking and such? I thought that was a big part of the entire purpose. What changed "some time ago"?

Maybe in the 70s when they stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental illness? (/s)

In all seriousness, this is a great listen: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/204/81-words

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#87

Post by spondylosaurus »

Spivak wrote: post #81
spondylosaurus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you're replying to is shorter than my original comment where I spitballed five different hypothetical scenarios to explain why the the paper's conclusion could be true? I think there's a solid chance it's true. I also think it's interesting that there's a discrepancy between studies like this and public perception of social media (i.e., that it's bad for kids). So I enjoy trying to feel out that discrepan…

Which is why I said it reads like copium. It seems like you have an unwavering position that social media is bad for people's emotional states and mental health. And when presented some new evidence that challenges this belief your immediate response was to come up with a bunch of ways your core belief could still hold given the new evidence. That to me isn't coming at it with an open mind or with curiosity. Is it no…

The idea that there's maybe a different larger effect is precisely what's interesting to me! Maybe I failed to communicate that effectively. (I'm feeling a little under the weather today, which never helps.) But I'll also point back to the final line of my first comment:

    And maybe none of those are true! But I'm curious to see if there's something unexpected going on.

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#88

Post by hyeonwho4 »

> Note that Ferguson had to calculate effect sizes for depression and anxiety in order to determine the composite effect size for those studies that contained these outcomes, but he did not include these results in his paper. When requested to provide the effect sizes he calculated for depression and anxiety, Ferguson replied that he is unable to do so. Furthermore, Ferguson even declined to reveal which aspects of well-being he selected for his calculation of each composite effect size (see Part 2 for details).

~ https://www.afterbabel.com/p/fundamental-flaws-part-3

So the author's meta review has a black box model which provides effect sizes for each study (in an attempt to even out studies which measure different aspects of mental health), and refuses to detail how it works. That alone makes the whole study suspect, and the above link details obvious calculation errors, too.

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#89

Post by ordu »

Spivak wrote: post #63
elicksaur wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We uncovered significant factual errors, including inaccuracies in effect sizes, sample sizes, and study inclusion/exclusion criteria, which were used to conclude that the impact of social media use on mental health is indistinguishable from zero. https://www.afterbabel.com/p/fundamental-flaws-part-3

Yes, that's academic discourse for you. Why do you assume this critique is more authoritative than the paper? Would you dismiss the critique if it was the other direction?

Neither is more authoritative, but if we lay aside science to rely on our common sense, then we'll get to "we don't really know, but my guts say me that X is true", aren't we? If we look at the scientific consensus once again, we'll see that there is no scientific consensus. So the whole situation boils down to "we don't really know".

Re: No evidence social media time is correlated with teen mental health problems

#90

Post by ffujdefvjg »

textlapse wrote: post #46

Is a control group even possible in this day and age?

And even if you could find a significant number of kids without phones, they're likely still interacting pretty closely with kids who have them. There's a theory that kids with phones and social media are missing key developmental stages that contribute to things like empathy, which would explain the increasing rates of narcissism we've been seeing. Kids without phones are subjected to to all the toxic second order effects. No way to escape it really.
Post reply on HN