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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
81–90 of 514 posts
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
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The murderer had the victims bloody jacket and some of her belongings in his car. He confessed to his partner and his prison mate that he did in fact kill her and steal her stuff. Nothing fascist about justice.
Except the DNA on the murder weapon wasn't his
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I could find reading about this case, the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy. But it’s a reasonable moral stand by the family to want to stay the execution if they think there is even a slim chance of innocence.
> the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy “Evidence of innocence” is a very problematic concept. Have you thought through what is your evidence of your innocence? (Not just regarding to this case, but regarding all cases involving dead or missing people.) Should we execute you if you ever come up short?
The problem is there are two different standards of proof at different points of the legal process.
Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt — all the onus is on the prosecution to prove that you indisputably committed that crime. In this case unreliable evidence was used without which this standard likely would not have been met.
Once you’ve been convicted (in this case on shoddy evidence) the onus is on you to offer evidence that you’re actually innocent - a reasonable doubt is no longer sufficient, you need to offer strong, new evidence that disproves the already decided “fact” that you committed the crime.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
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The murderer had the victims bloody jacket and some of her belongings in his car. He confessed to his partner and his prison mate that he did in fact kill her and steal her stuff. Nothing fascist about justice.
> "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection.
If I say I killed someone, do you think that's enough for a conviction? I mean I didn't actually kill someone and there's no evidence whatsoever that I did.
Facists oversimplify right and wrong, guilty and innocense, and disregard centuries if not millennia of philosophy about justice, lawmaking and due process to bring about swift change as they see fit.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#85There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!
I believe there are heinous crimes that do. Both fitting the crime and as a deterrent.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#86So it seems that the original case rested on the following: - Williams GF witness testimony, that Williams confessed to her. - Jailhouse witness testimony, that Williams had confessed to them. - That Williams had items (purse, laptop, etc.) in his car, on the day or day after the murder. But no DNA evidence? A death penalty seems pretty egregious, when you have that kind of evidence. Seems like there's plenty of reas…
That seems like pretty strong evidence to me!
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one It's beyond stupid to elect people who are in charge of upholding laws and prosecute crimes. They have to campaign, make their views known, and to get elected, show views which of course aren't necessarily related to what their job should be about. Get professionals that are as impartial as possible. They w…
If prosecutors are going to be biased either way, I'd prefer a choice in those biases.
I'd prefer them to not have biases, to be criticised when they do, and not to be incentivised (reelection) to proudly show them.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#88> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.
There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. He pawned the victim's possessions. He was seen disposing of bloody clothes. He already had 15 felony convictions in addition to offenses related to Ms. Gayle's murder: robbery (2), armed criminal action (2), assault (2), burglary (4), stealing (3), stealing a motor vehicle, and unlawful use of a weapon. Now, as to whether this evidence is so…
> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate.
Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part:
> The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he committed the murder while they were both locked up in jail. Cole directed police to Laura Asaro, a woman who had briefly dated Mr. Williams and had an extensive record of her own.
> Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
The murderer had the victims bloody jacket and some of her belongings in his car. He confessed to his partner and his prison mate that he did in fact kill her and steal her stuff. Nothing fascist about justice.
> "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. If I say I killed someone, do you think that's enough for a conviction? I mean I didn't actually kill someone and there's no evidence whatsoever that I did. Facists oversimplify right and wrong, guilty and innocense, and disregard centuries if not millennia of philosophy abou…
This has nothing to do with Fascism. Communists executed people with a fervor. Monarchs executed people.
There's plenty of evidence too. This specific case is being amplified by an activist class you'll find commonly in prison/death penalty abolitionist circles. They don't care about justice, or guilt of the person; they are high on a savior complex.
Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence
#90Still not sure with so many of the (esp right leaning) in the US claiming to be christian, can also accept this as a punishment. But I get nonsense begets more nonsense.
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