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Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

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Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#81

Post by crashabr »

jeffhuys wrote: post #33
deisteve wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, I completely agree that deliberate practice and intentional positivity can be powerful tools for growth and skill-building. The 'fake it till you make it' approach can be especially helpful for building confidence and momentum. I think the key is finding that balance between pushing ourselves to grow and being kind to ourselves when we need to rest. It's okay to take a step back, recharge, and prioritize…

I don’t know why and I might be wrong, but (parts of) some of your comments read exactly like an LLM response, while other parts feel like you typing additional stuff “around” the response.

If you check their other comments, it's clear that they're using an llm to respond.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#82

Post by FollowingTheDao »

trabant00 wrote: post #38

There's an unspoken premise here and I'm going to question it. Avoiding tension, conflict, hard words and other things of the sort is not always the right choice. Sometimes letting conflicts play out gets you the best outcome with the least amount of suffering. Just like ripping off a band-aid. There's plenty of times when wining a conflict is far better than avoiding it. And I see articles like this, books like Nonv…

Yes, agree. This is all a continuation of the Positivity Cult. Anger is a method of communication that is greater than words, and it puts the explanation point at the end of some of the most important statements.

Just read this:

I need help.

I need help!

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#83

Post by bgilroy26 »

watwut wrote: post #69
sethammons wrote: post #23

> You’re being a thermometer. When they’re subtly giving off weird vibes—they’re frowning, answering your questions with fewer words than normal, etc.—you’ve noticed that their temperature is different. And if you are doing this as a coping mechanism from having an unstable parent and you are like me (also maybe a bit of adhd): you internalize the person's chilled behavior and often assume it is your fault. In case y…

> You are not responsible for other's emotions (though you are responsible for your actions) I know you do not mean it this way, but I really dislike this saying. It is not even true, actually. The most frequent use of this is people who are being, well, jerks, trying to argue that when people feel bad after being put down, insulted or treated with passive aggression, it is their own fault. If people feel bad after y…

I think different senses of responsibility are under discussion

The parent comment I believe was saying that we do not orchestrate other people's emotions and you are saying that we do impact other people's emotions and both can be true

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#84

Post by nicbou »

dailykoder wrote: post #40
sethammons wrote: post #23

> You’re being a thermometer. When they’re subtly giving off weird vibes—they’re frowning, answering your questions with fewer words than normal, etc.—you’ve noticed that their temperature is different. And if you are doing this as a coping mechanism from having an unstable parent and you are like me (also maybe a bit of adhd): you internalize the person's chilled behavior and often assume it is your fault. In case y…

I know this and I have learned more than enough about it to internalize it, but it just doesn't work. I can't find a way to stop the automatic jumping to conclusion and self blame. It takes hours to get over it and that's exhausting. I am trying for years to find a way out, but it just hasn't internalized yet

I have the same problem and I made a lot of progress this year and the last. A few things that help in no particular order:

- Write things down. Over time you start noticing patterns that help you diagnose and fix the issue. I particularly love the post-mortem when returning from a house party, and how batshit itsane it reads 5 days later. I also have a play-by-play diary of me thinking I was misreading a person's intentions and agonising over every interaction. We've been together for a few years. It's fun to rewind the tape and laugh at your own irrationality.

- Treat your overreaction to social cues as irrational, and deal with it accordingly. Every Spring, my body tells me that grass pollen will kill me (hay fever), but I just ignore that signal as irrational. I now handle my hasty conclusions the same way.

- Indifference is the default. Most people won't be excited about you, but they're a very long way from disliking you. A lack of enthusiasm does not mean anything about you.

- Talk to others about it. When I started talking about my insecurities to close friends, they told me just how wrong I was, with lots of backing evidence. They were genuinely surprised that I thought any of those things. It's a bit like how a friend of mine was super self-conscious about something on his face, and a year in, I had never even noticed it.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#85

Post by nicbou »

sethammons wrote: post #22

If this resonated with you, consider reading Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg, the ultimate guide in thermostat-speak. You focus on stating unmet needs. Good stuff.

I haven't read NVC, but "stating unmet needs" is a strong aspect of "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and "Models". Being up front about who you are and what you want is a lot more likely to work than being nice and hoping your needs are met in the way that you expect. It's also a way to cut your losses early if the other person is not interested in providing whatever you're after.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#86

Post by watwut »

awelxtr wrote: post #76
watwut wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, these dont help to solve people problems. They are motivational feel good advice. In practice, they will exhaust you and dont work in the long term. And what they actually make is to create situation in which your needs and things you want to achieve are less and less met. Or just make you look unauthentic to others - they will cease to believe your projected emotions.

Most self-help is easy to write and difficult to apply, specially if it's written in a generic matter like in a book or in a blog post. This doesn't mean it can't be helpful. I know because some self help knowledge in the past has helped me.

It is not just difficult to apply. If you actually try to apply it and do, it setups you for fail. Because it is feel good instead of real and omits real world constraints.

Take this article - sometimes, fairly often, the "bad vibes" are a correct observation of the other persons attitude, opinions and intentions. Sometimes people are in fact hostile or cold, whether for personal, professional, fair or unfair reasons.

This part of the advice, if you apply it, is making you helpless and powerless. And conversely, it over time make you come across as manipulative person, because that is what you do majority of the time.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#87

Post by watwut »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #83
watwut wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are not responsible for other's emotions (though you are responsible for your actions) I know you do not mean it this way, but I really dislike this saying. It is not even true, actually. The most frequent use of this is people who are being, well, jerks, trying to argue that when people feel bad after being put down, insulted or treated with passive aggression, it is their own fault. If people feel bad after y…

I think different senses of responsibility are under discussion The parent comment I believe was saying that we do not orchestrate other people's emotions and you are saying that we do impact other people's emotions and both can be true

The whole article this discussion is under is all about intentionally orchestrating other peoples emotions.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#88

Post by wruza »

theultdev wrote: post #70
wruza wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe in this theory and my experience with therapy suggests it just makes little sense. Emotional outbursts (like being startled/angered/in pain) may be temporarily irrational your own logic-wise, but your regular emotional background absolutely reflects what you actually believe is happening and the way you think. So unless you’re doing emotional logging and are really managing your beliefs, deep settings…

> Emotional outbursts (like being startled/angered/in pain) may be temporarily irrational your own logic-wise, but your regular emotional background absolutely reflects what you actually believe is happening and the way you think. Yes your emotional background reflects what you believe is happening, but you can correct your belief if you analyze and rationalize the emotional response when you feel it, which then upda…

I find it very hard to impossible to do immediately afterwards. I can detect it, which is somewhat obvious, and write down the situation, but finding the source of it immediately I find unrealistic.

Either we talk about different things here, or I lack some Sherlock Holmes level skills that you have.

Anyway, if something bothers me that hard, making it unbother me is an improvement to work in a stupid situation, not self-normalization.

For example, recently I got frustrated when an inexperienced relative wrongly measured airport hand baggage (pure geometric cluelessness) and insisted airport will do it that way too. I find this frustration absolutely normal and don’t really want to get rid of it, cause it’s immediately actionable and the response is correct-ish.

Otoh, I successfully defeated my non-actionable fear of being late, but it took me a couple of advanced techniques I didn’t even know existed, some movie-level talk to your childhood stuff.

So there’s so much to it that I just don’t see how to “just do afterwards” (at least it sounds like that).

Again, feels we are talking different things here, not sure. And sorry for the stream of consciousness.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#89

Post by sethammons »

watwut wrote: post #69
sethammons wrote: post #23

> You’re being a thermometer. When they’re subtly giving off weird vibes—they’re frowning, answering your questions with fewer words than normal, etc.—you’ve noticed that their temperature is different. And if you are doing this as a coping mechanism from having an unstable parent and you are like me (also maybe a bit of adhd): you internalize the person's chilled behavior and often assume it is your fault. In case y…

> You are not responsible for other's emotions (though you are responsible for your actions) I know you do not mean it this way, but I really dislike this saying. It is not even true, actually. The most frequent use of this is people who are being, well, jerks, trying to argue that when people feel bad after being put down, insulted or treated with passive aggression, it is their own fault. If people feel bad after y…

If you are acting like a jerk, that is an action, and I expressly put that you are responsible for your actions.

You punch someone and they are angry: your action is related. You arrive at work and say hi to your boss as they barely acknowledge you and are in a mood: you should not default to "what did I do wrong and how do I fix it oh god I am gonna get fired" - while it may also still be appropriate to try to cheer them up.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#90

Post by lynx23 »

awelxtr wrote: post #78
osigurdson wrote: post #34

I just hate this kind of stuff. Good for you if you can create a consulting business out of stating the obvious I suppose. It is a drain on the economy however.

> stating the obvious If interpersonal relationships were obvious we would not need abuse laws nor CPS.

They are usually obvious, except for psychopaths and people struggling with autism. The latter is rather prominent in tech, so we see more of these issues then outside of tech.
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