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Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

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Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#81

Post by mewpmewp2 »

hexo wrote: post #79
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Europe. I don't have to pay taxes from RSUs before I have actually sold the stock, even if it's vested and neither do I have to pay any taxes on options until I have made actual profit from them. But yes, I do wonder if it will direct a lot of negotiations into the more "benefits" section of the thing.

Interesting, obviously I must be in other EU country, or laws have changed, but here it was mandatory to pay taxes from vested RSUs.

At the point of vesting and at what price point? Price at vesting?

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#82

Post by voytec »

switch007 wrote: post #6

Clickbait. Google 'Directive 2023/970' for many better other articles A very amateur looking site too. Domain registered in 2023. Few Google references to the name. Can't handle HN load. The "About Us" contains a link to https://7bn.org/team , which gives a Cloudflare error and https://7bn.org returns a web hosting "Default Web Site Page" And 50 upvotes while the site isn't even loading? Hilarious

Looks like ML-generated garbage with multiple accounts driving "traffic". HN is heavily infested with ML-generated posts and what appears to be account botnets voting or commenting with LLM-generated output.

Setting "showdead" to "yes" in HN profile settings is the red pill.

I recently triggered[0] some LLM-based robot, by mentioning poor air quality in India in scope of reported cancer rates. You can read the first paragraph of all these "[dead]" responses and you'll get the pattern.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41215564 (HN red pill - you need showdead=yes setting in user profile to see this spam)

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#83

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

switch007 wrote: post #6

Clickbait. Google 'Directive 2023/970' for many better other articles A very amateur looking site too. Domain registered in 2023. Few Google references to the name. Can't handle HN load. The "About Us" contains a link to https://7bn.org/team , which gives a Cloudflare error and https://7bn.org returns a web hosting "Default Web Site Page" And 50 upvotes while the site isn't even loading? Hilarious

https://web.archive.org/web/20240909210706if_/https://fikku....

Looks normal in a text-only browser. Nothing unusual. It appears to be a WordPress blog.

The EU directive:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2023/970/oj

See (32) et seq.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#84

Post by pdonis »

surgical_fire wrote: post #77
pdonis wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies don't collude to suppress salaries If companies treat employees as commodities, which is largely the case, they don't have to collude to suppress salaries. The basic economics of commodities is enough. The only way for employees to really have any bargaining power is to not be commodities; but trying to do that as employees is swimming against a strong economic current, because companies who can't treat t…

Which is why proper regulations that ensure labor protections is a good thing. The relationship between employee and employer is fundamentally adversarial, and the employer has all the power in that relationship.

> proper regulations that ensure labor protections

Don't. Regulatory capture is a thing.

> The relationship between employee and employer is fundamentally adversarial

In general, no, it is no more so than any contractual relationship.

However, to the extent that employees can be treated as commodities, that does add an adversarial element.

> the employer has all the power in that relationship.

Again, this is not true in general, but to the extent that employees can be treated as commodities, yes, that means their bargaining power is minimal.

However, this is not something that can be fixed by regulation, because, as above, employers, who, in the cases where employees can be treated as commodities, will be large corporations, can just buy the regulations that favor them. To the extent that they have to accept provisions that they would rather not have, for example minimum wage, limitations on how they can fire people, requirements for "fairness" in compensation, etc., those provisions don't actually help employees; they make us all poorer by reducing overall productivity, so while the relative position of some people might be improved, in absolute terms they are still worse off, like everyone else.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#85

Post by surgical_fire »

pdonis wrote: post #84
surgical_fire wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why proper regulations that ensure labor protections is a good thing. The relationship between employee and employer is fundamentally adversarial, and the employer has all the power in that relationship.

> proper regulations that ensure labor protections Don't. Regulatory capture is a thing. > The relationship between employee and employer is fundamentally adversarial In general, no, it is no more so than any contractual relationship. However, to the extent that employees can be treated as commodities, that does add an adversarial element. > the employer has all the power in that relationship. Again, this is not true…

I fundamentally disagree with most everything you said. Worker protections do not reduce productivity, this is a typical talking point of employers who only seek to reduce costs of employment, at the expense of employees.

Even if it increased productivity, without regulation protecting employees the profits of that increased productivity are all harnessed by the elites who own the capital, and the workers are all poorer because of that.

If regulatory capture in labor protections was a thing, the large companies would pressure for strong labor protections, instead of always rallying and lobbying against thoae

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#86

Post by School-Cotton »

hexo wrote: post #79
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Europe. I don't have to pay taxes from RSUs before I have actually sold the stock, even if it's vested and neither do I have to pay any taxes on options until I have made actual profit from them. But yes, I do wonder if it will direct a lot of negotiations into the more "benefits" section of the thing.

Interesting, obviously I must be in other EU country, or laws have changed, but here it was mandatory to pay taxes from vested RSUs.

The original thread was about options, not RSUs. Not sure if it makes a difference.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#87

Post by pdonis »

surgical_fire wrote: post #85
pdonis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> proper regulations that ensure labor protections Don't. Regulatory capture is a thing. > The relationship between employee and employer is fundamentally adversarial In general, no, it is no more so than any contractual relationship. However, to the extent that employees can be treated as commodities, that does add an adversarial element. > the employer has all the power in that relationship. Again, this is not true…

I fundamentally disagree with most everything you said. Worker protections do not reduce productivity, this is a typical talking point of employers who only seek to reduce costs of employment, at the expense of employees. Even if it increased productivity, without regulation protecting employees the profits of that increased productivity are all harnessed by the elites who own the capital, and the workers are all poo…

> Worker protections do not reduce productivity

To the extent that they protect workers who are genuinely productive, of course they don't reduce the productivity of those workers.

But to the extent that they protect workers who aren't genuinely productive (by making them harder to fire, and more generally making it harder to reduce their impact), they do reduce overall productivity.

> without regulation protecting employees the profits of that increased productivity are all harnessed by the elites who own the capital

If you believe the story that's being told about the last four decades or so, this was happening with regulations protecting employees all over the place. So if those regulations are supposed to be preventing it from happening, they're not working.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#88

Post by systemtest »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #71
hexo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is not of unknown value. in fact, they are valued as you have to pay taxes from it

I'm from Europe. I don't have to pay taxes from RSUs before I have actually sold the stock, even if it's vested and neither do I have to pay any taxes on options until I have made actual profit from them. But yes, I do wonder if it will direct a lot of negotiations into the more "benefits" section of the thing.

Does your country not tax unrealised capital gains? Or fictional gains? Mine does.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#89

Post by systemtest »

marzipanWhale wrote: post #52
ericmay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the salary info include investment income or income from other sources, or only salaries from corporations? If you work as a barista would your taxable information be available as well?

You can see the following three numbers: Wealth, Income, Calculated tax Here's what it says for me (I've censored some stuff with ): Born: 19** Wealth: 5** *** Postal code/area: **** Income: 4** *** Tax Municipality: *** Calculated tax: 1** ***

I find it interesting that you censored publicly available information.

Re: Europe to End "Salary Secrecy": Employee Salaries to Become Public by 2026

#90

Post by bitcharmer »

switch007 wrote: post #6

Clickbait. Google 'Directive 2023/970' for many better other articles A very amateur looking site too. Domain registered in 2023. Few Google references to the name. Can't handle HN load. The "About Us" contains a link to https://7bn.org/team , which gives a Cloudflare error and https://7bn.org returns a web hosting "Default Web Site Page" And 50 upvotes while the site isn't even loading? Hilarious

Sadly the coordinated up- and down-voting has been on the increase here lately. Most humans who frequent HN will agree but watch my comment getting flagged in minutes.
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