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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#81

Post by sharpshadow »

sharpshadow wrote: post #15
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #5

This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

Btw after Hungary got the Presidency of the Council of the European Union[1] in July Orban made a trip to Ukraine[2] which was fine for the media until he went directly afterwards to Russia and then to China[3] which the media didn’t took very well. To finish off his trip he went to the USA to meet and endorse Trump.[4] The media wasn’t really happy with that either.

But overall he is one of the only European leaders which speaks with all relevant parties and tries to stop the conflict in Ukraine.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_the_Council_of... 2. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/world/europe/orban-hungar... 3. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/07/08/hungarian-prim... 4. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/viktor-trump-mar-a-lago-visit-n...

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#82

Post by cpursley »

even_639765 wrote: post #67
Hunpeter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. But consider that one way Orban makes sure to maintain this - indeed significant - majority is to try to silence/discredit voices that go against his narrative. In fact, his party is spending millions of dollars in public funds to finance a continuous stream of propaganda on many channels. On top of this, t…

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

I still can’t get over that the UK arrests people over social media posts. Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#83

Post by jonathanstrange »

vletal wrote: post #48
dt3ft wrote: post #28

[flagged]

Yeah. A slippery slope. If you force major apps to comply, smaller apps will pop up. Not sure if you can win this whack a mole.

It's like with drug dealing on the streets. If you force dealers off the streets, the deals will take place in private apartments that are much harder to surveil. If you force dealers from large social nets to private social nets or even specialized "underground" apps, the police work is going to be harder, not easier.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#84

Post by consp »

sharpshadow wrote: post #81
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

Btw after Hungary got the Presidency of the Council of the European Union[1] in July Orban made a trip to Ukraine[2] which was fine for the media until he went directly afterwards to Russia and then to China[3] which the media didn’t took very well. To finish off his trip he went to the USA to meet and endorse Trump.[4] The media wasn’t really happy with that either. But overall he is one of the only European leaders…

> tries to stop the conflict in Ukraine

Afaik only cares about cheap gas, the rest is irrelevant.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#85

Post by perihelions »

simion314 wrote: post #23
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

- "votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you)"

I don't know if you're double-trolling or not, but it's pretty dehumanizing rhetoric to say people who've left their country for work or other reasons are not real citizens and presumptively have no stake in their own country's future.

(It's even stranger you apply this kind of–nativist?–language to a member state of the EU, where transnational ties are a founding ideal of that anti-nationalist union..)

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#86

Post by mrtksn »

tmpccc wrote: post #3

I am in favor of ChatControl for politicians only: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/two-agencies-... "The Ombudsman accused von der Leyen and the Commission of ‘maladministration’ for failing to produce the deleted text messages, challenging the belief that such texts did not qualify as ‘documents’ under EU law."

Funny enough, that's actually a sound proposal and is "somewhat" implemented as high ranking officials are expected to always be with someone documenting their acts. It is usually considered scandalous when they ditch their translator or secretary and talk with other high ranking officials in complete secrecy.

It makes all the sense to have politicians %100 monitored %100 of the time. Store it in encrypted blackbox and if something big enough happens, then unlock it.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#87

Post by 7bit »

2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

> What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys?

Do China and Russland have these people? Not more than anywhere else.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#88

Post by vasco »

even_639765 wrote: post #67
Hunpeter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. But consider that one way Orban makes sure to maintain this - indeed significant - majority is to try to silence/discredit voices that go against his narrative. In fact, his party is spending millions of dollars in public funds to finance a continuous stream of propaganda on many channels. On top of this, t…

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

I've seen a few recent videos out of the UK that made my blood boil. Police visits to your home because of mean posts, and then off to jail in handcuffs. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#89

Post by vetinari »

TheChaplain wrote: post #56
vetinari wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US a…

> Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? Very strange attitude. I voted while I was abroad for two decades, because my family and friends were still there, and I wanted the best from them.

Your family and friends know, what is best for them and can vote for themselves.

Meanwhile, you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation; you are going to have one of game of telephone one (I know, I also lived abroad for a while). As a result, you might do more damage than helping.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#90

Post by cpursley »

sharpshadow wrote: post #81
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

Btw after Hungary got the Presidency of the Council of the European Union[1] in July Orban made a trip to Ukraine[2] which was fine for the media until he went directly afterwards to Russia and then to China[3] which the media didn’t took very well. To finish off his trip he went to the USA to meet and endorse Trump.[4] The media wasn’t really happy with that either. But overall he is one of the only European leaders…

Exactly, we need more talking and less moralizing and “preconditions” for talking.

* Not an endorsement of this particular politician

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