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Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

ecuadorembassyuk.org.uk

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Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#81

Post by sparkie »

objclxt wrote: post #51
wvenable wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange stayed in Sweden for 5 weeks to be interrogated and only left Sweden after asking permission to do so from the Swedish Prosecutor. Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.

And now they would like him back to ask some more questions. Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).

Assange hasn't denied Sweden the right to question him, for example, over the phone - they have refused to do so. Why must he be on Swedish soil to answer some questions?

Everything about these allegations are clumsy. While we may never know what has transpired, it should be a wake up call to the legal system - you can't just push the regular processes aside and treat a case exceptionally because the suspect is somewhat of a celebrity. The Swedish legal system has also failed these women, if indeed, they are victims.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#82

Post by genwin »

objclxt wrote: post #51
wvenable wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange stayed in Sweden for 5 weeks to be interrogated and only left Sweden after asking permission to do so from the Swedish Prosecutor. Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.

And now they would like him back to ask some more questions. Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).

5 weeks is at least 5 times longer than all the time they reasonably needed to ask questions in person. They could still ask questions by phone or email or video.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#83

Post by molmalo »

mathetic wrote: post #78
objclxt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

It depresses me that people are commenting on the issue without actually knowing what the investigation in Sweden is about. I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did no…

Exactly, people keep on talking about "rape", simply because the accusation is not a crime in any other country. So, I may be wrong, but I tend to think that this is a product of mass media: A- using this term to destroy his reputation, or B- using this term, because it's much more difficult to construct public opinion, trying to explain the real "crime" in other countries.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#84

Post by planetguy »

nirvana wrote: post #39

Julian's situation seems very weird to me, given the stories about how secretive he was, how he kept in hiding, etc. At the same time, he was very clearly and publicly the face of wikileaks. Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right? Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at…

Because fame and ego. Assange is a weird-looking socially awkward epsilon-male, but make him the figurehead of anti-Americanism and apparently a bunch of Swedish leftist chicks want to bang him. At least once. As long as he puts on a condom.

In all seriousness, if you find yourself asking "Why did this man choose fame, glory and groupies over the good of the cause he claims to espouse" then you don't know much about human psychology.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#85

Post by ForrestN »

crazygringo wrote: post #33
ForrestN wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Populist" is generally either neutral or positive in American politics. But most often I hear it used to describe a political strategy, going directly for the masses instead of the upper echelons of power.

I would disagree, and say it's usually negative -- the idea that you win short-term approval for a dubious policy by appealing to the masses who are ignorant of the true consequences, as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea. For example, promising to cut the gasoline tax would be a very populist tactic -- people think "I pay less for gas, that's great!", where…

Well, it's true that elites may see populism with some suspicion, and may convey that to each other. But if you turn on Hardball (famous political TV program), many elites and many not-so-elites, depending on your vantage, might be urging Obama, say, to take a more populist tack in his campaign. It's usually neutral, one side of a spectrum people have diverse opinions about.

For example, I don't often feel like angrily shouting at a republican "you populist!" but I do regularly feel like shouting "you morally bankrupt exploiter of the public's ignorance!"

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#86

Post by ForrestN »

planetguy wrote: post #84
nirvana wrote: post #39

Julian's situation seems very weird to me, given the stories about how secretive he was, how he kept in hiding, etc. At the same time, he was very clearly and publicly the face of wikileaks. Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right? Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at…

Because fame and ego. Assange is a weird-looking socially awkward epsilon-male, but make him the figurehead of anti-Americanism and apparently a bunch of Swedish leftist chicks want to bang him. At least once. As long as he puts on a condom. In all seriousness, if you find yourself asking "Why did this man choose fame, glory and groupies over the good of the cause he claims to espouse" then you don't know much about…

It must be nice to live in a world with such simple people!

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#87

Post by lawnchair_larry »

objclxt wrote: post #57
rickmb wrote: post #47

Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

He is not being charged with rape. He is being charged with intentionally tearing a condom during consensual intercourse. It's pretty offensive to compare this with rape, imo.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#88

Post by ashconnor »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #87
objclxt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

He is not being charged with rape. He is being charged with intentionally tearing a condom during consensual intercourse. It's pretty offensive to compare this with rape, imo.

Is this a crime in the UK?

I'm no lawyer but doesn't something have to be a crime in both countries in order to be eligible for extradition?

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#89

Post by cyrus_ »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #87
objclxt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

He is not being charged with rape. He is being charged with intentionally tearing a condom during consensual intercourse. It's pretty offensive to compare this with rape, imo.

Actually, he's not being charged with anything yet. The warrant is simply to require him to come to Sweden for questioning, after which time the prosecutor will decide whether to charge him with any crime. At the moment, he has only been accused of a crime.

Also, it is my understanding that the accusation was brought by the police officers after reading the statements given by the women in question. They had only come to ask if Assange could be required to take an HIV test.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#90

Post by chj »

roguecoder wrote: post #73
pvnick wrote: post #5

How dire is Assange's situation? Is it really possible that the US will try to imprison or even execute him? Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange

He is accused of sexual misconduct, some of which does carry possible jail times similar to, say, shoplifting. His continued refusal to stand trial is unlikely to play well to the court, but had he simply faced trial he would probably be out already even if he had been convicted.

wishful thinking is dangerous in politics. you die without knowing how.
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