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Trainwreck Design

j3s.sh

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: Trainwreck Design

#81

A webpage that uses numeric identifiers for external references that are found only when scrolling to the very bottom of the page and show their URLs as plain text. Now that is a train wreck. Hyperlinks are the cornerstone of the web. Don't be afraid of using them!

Also using a monospaced font for both the written text and command line output is certainly a choice. I get that it is often an aesthetic choice, but given that a blog post is written with the idea to be read, one I don't think is a particularly good one. Although the last time I made a remark about that on HN it became clear to me that a lot of people don't see the issue. Even if there are decades worth (at this point) of research that makes it clear that a sans serif font (or even a serif font on modern displays) works better for readability. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is clear that the author is very explicitly going for the aesthetics of a terminal, given that all formatting of the text is ASCII based down to the line length being hard coded as if we are dealing with a hard limit of columns.

Personally, I'd prefer something more like this: https://www.creesch.com/dump/img/img_66c3127604542.png.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#82
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will give you additional context on hover (on systems that support that) "hover" has no meaning on touch-based interfaces.

You should see the title text if you long-press on the link, no?

On iOS it opens the link in an pop-in.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#83

Surprise, surprise. Let me be the contrarian: I dislike this attitude of dumbing everything down just because some people can't be bothered to learn how and why their tools work the way they do. They'll invoke "2024" like it means something. Not a great look IMO. The output of df and mount shows the truth as it is: raw and shitty. Don't dumb it down. Your version of usability might be my idea of a nightmare. I like t…

> Don't dumb it down

Where was that demanded?

> It is exceedingly easy to filter the output of said tools.

This is provably false. Consider the content of Linux file systems. There is no one tool to simultaneously observe conventional POSIX properties, ACLs, capability attributes, selinux properties, AppArmor references, etc., to which you might apply a filter. So you have to repeatedly create your own, half-baked, inefficient, throw-away correlation tools on the fly in what little time you can spare.

Why? These features didn't appear last week. Most are older than a lot of people coping with this stuff. I answer that question here[1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41288842

Re: Trainwreck Design

#85
post #34
post #22

(most) Kids will likely never learn these command and attributes and output like we passionately did in 1994. LLMs be spittin' them command lines quick and correct, transpiled/translated from English/French/...Macedonian if you like. they already do, and it already helps a lot. Perhaps one may learn to remember and , but will definitely not care to produce by heart oneliner bash abominations sprinkled with sygils and…

As a youngling I have to say, I always liked the idea of the shell as something where you can pipe stuff inbetween programs. It is a genius concept. The problem is that in the real world implementation of the idea you have something like bash, that sucks for text processing with all its footguns of unescaped strings, spaces, wildcard operators and such. Maybe it has to do with strings not really having been a first c…

And eventually you come to conclusion that you need powershell like pipes of objects. Btw someone tried to implement a shell in Python which feeds structures, not sure the name though… was in HN front a while ago

Re: Trainwreck Design

#86
post #22

(most) Kids will likely never learn these command and attributes and output like we passionately did in 1994. LLMs be spittin' them command lines quick and correct, transpiled/translated from English/French/...Macedonian if you like. they already do, and it already helps a lot. Perhaps one may learn to remember and , but will definitely not care to produce by heart oneliner bash abominations sprinkled with sygils and…

> This whole article very true, but somewhat irrelevant to 2024. The author is complaining about inconvenience. If I'm in the shell, and I want to see how much disk space I have, asking a LLM for a command then running the command then asking the LLM to parse it is still inconvenient, compared to just typing "df -h" and getting a reasonable output. The fact that Claude or whoever can parse that output seems irrelevan…

Is not indeed. The author has valid clues and points made. 100% agree with him. Nevertheless you still need to do some job and people find ways around.

All I’m saying is long prompts of shell progs that you need to use once or twice are easier written in the newskool way, not that proper output of common programs is bad idea.

But I really can’t imagine anyone or anything convincing thousands of devs to conform certain format. Really a wet dream today unless started so from day one. Only big players can do that.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#87
post #61
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... you have to use systemd tools to parse the output these days. Why are you even looking at this with the naked eye?

I would gladly switch to a systemd command. What should I use?

networkctl status/list

Re: Trainwreck Design

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an intentional aesthetic choice[0]. Hyperlinks would be convenient, but something about the raw text / ascii art vibe makes me happy everytime I read a blog post from j3s even if it doesn't have the conveniences of the modern web. [0] https://j3s.sh/about.html

Hyperlinks are not modern web though.

They in fact predate the modern or even ancient WWW.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#89
post #36

This complaint about df/mount/etc. recurs with noticeable frequency. Another ugly spot is iproute2's ip link/addr. Between containers and VMs and their virtual interfaces, link bonding, virtual bridges, macvlan/tap, etc., the list of "interfaces" proliferates. Trying to find an actual physical interface is difficult, and interpreting what is there is a challenge. Improving this stuff isn't happening because no one is…

> It's just that no one is doing that.

There's a new wave of Rust based tools. Things like sd instead of sed, and fd instead of find. I think they have an opportunity to fix these things. They're not built in right now, and probably won't be anytime soon. But maybe eventually they will be.

Although, on a different note, I don't think they follow the hive or cathedral design that this author discusses so maybe they will end up with their own lack of cohesion.

Re: Trainwreck Design

#90
post #85
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a youngling I have to say, I always liked the idea of the shell as something where you can pipe stuff inbetween programs. It is a genius concept. The problem is that in the real world implementation of the idea you have something like bash, that sucks for text processing with all its footguns of unescaped strings, spaces, wildcard operators and such. Maybe it has to do with strings not really having been a first c…

And eventually you come to conclusion that you need powershell like pipes of objects. Btw someone tried to implement a shell in Python which feeds structures, not sure the name though… was in HN front a while ago

Sounds like https://xon.sh/
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