http://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=20m50s
"If you think like a computer, writing C actually makes sense."
Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
81–90 of 147 posts
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#82TLDR: Linus at a Q&A, a woman asks why Nvidia still isn't providing any support for Optimus on Linux, Linus responds that Nvidia is being really difficult about that without good reason and "Fuck You Nvidia!" (flicks off the camera). Her question actually starts a minute earlier than the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA&t=48m14s PS - Bravo Linus. This is issue is a real PITA, and a bit incongruent con…
I have a Notebook with Optimus, and watching this made me so happy. Nvidia is being an ass by not supporting Optimus.
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current moderation system isn't scaling. This post is a good example to illustrate the problem. At first glance it appears to be a flamebait title, and hence a mod who sees it may feel it's a no-brainer - correct it and move on. However, there's a nuance to it - that is exactly how Linus Torvalds expresses himself, and the original title ("Linus to Nvidia: Fuck You!", or something close to that) captured his sent…
It's been like this for a long time. It's by far the least transparent moderation in a community I've ever seen. For a long time I thought of HN as a generally smart, reasonable community (less so these days with the masses here) but the completely opaque moderation has always seemed extraordinarily, unnecessarily restrictive and elitist. It's unlikely to change at this point. The minority who care don't matter enoug…
> It's unlikely to change at this point.
I wonder about that. Is it b/c PG is the only the HN source committer, but without enough time to evolve the site fast enough to keep up?
Or is it something else?
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current moderation system isn't scaling. This post is a good example to illustrate the problem. At first glance it appears to be a flamebait title, and hence a mod who sees it may feel it's a no-brainer - correct it and move on. However, there's a nuance to it - that is exactly how Linus Torvalds expresses himself, and the original title ("Linus to Nvidia: Fuck You!", or something close to that) captured his sent…
It's been like this for a long time. It's by far the least transparent moderation in a community I've ever seen. For a long time I thought of HN as a generally smart, reasonable community (less so these days with the masses here) but the completely opaque moderation has always seemed extraordinarily, unnecessarily restrictive and elitist. It's unlikely to change at this point. The minority who care don't matter enoug…
> Keep it invite-only perhaps.
Well I probably count as the masses. But one model might be a sort of web of trust. You start off with a few people who are ultimately trusted. And then as your web grows you can track who let who into the site. People who consistently let in poor members get their invite privileges revoked or are kicked. Have a reputation threshold before you can invite people.
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ungrateful? Since when is that part of any sensible business plan? I don't know why Linus would expect a corporation to devote significant resources to an endeavor out of kindness. Nvidia will play nicely with Linux when it becomes in their financial interests to do so. Edit: I expected downvotes and I'll gladly take them if someone can explain to me how Nvidia is being unreasonable.
>Ungrateful? Since when is that part of any sensible business plan? If you depend on free software to sell your hardware, it is probably in your interest to see to it that the people that write the software that is required to sell your hardware don't hate you.
As an example of this, kernel developers have in the past responded to NVidia by marking kernel symbols used by the nvidia kernel module as GPL-only.
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#86The original title of this submission was 'Linus to Nvidia: "Fuck You"', which was renamed by someone (the moderators? can the submitter change the title?) after a ton of people had upvoted and commented on it, and despite the link being not to the entire video but instead to a specific point in the video for which the title of the entire video is probably not even an appropriate description. So, when people are read…
The current moderation system isn't scaling. This post is a good example to illustrate the problem. At first glance it appears to be a flamebait title, and hence a mod who sees it may feel it's a no-brainer - correct it and move on. However, there's a nuance to it - that is exactly how Linus Torvalds expresses himself, and the original title ("Linus to Nvidia: Fuck You!", or something close to that) captured his sent…
> But on the other hand, the mod system has problems as well:
> 1. Nobody even knows what the mod system is
That is not a problem. This is excellent feature of a moderation system. Meta is death - really. I'm never going to make another meta post after this one. (Unless it's t help a new user.)
> 2. Nobody knows who the mods are.
Again, that's not a problem. It avoids turning moderating into character battles. A mod who makes a mistake anonymously has no investment of face-saving; they can easily undo the error.
> 3. There's no way to give feedback on moderations, for the ones that were incorrectly modded.
There is an email address clearly listed in the guidelines.
I really don't think the problems are as big as people are making out. Sure, some things are frustrating. Taking this video and post as an example: Don't link to the small part of the video where Linus tells nvidia to go fuck themselves, link to the entire video (and to the start of that video) and then give it a better title. Trying to attach blame to mods because someone made a weird sub-optimal choice when submitting a link is un-good.
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#87...anybody else picked up the line where he basically says that WEB PROGRAMMING ISN'T [REAL] PROGRAMMING? I wonder what a community like HN, with so many people developing web apps thinks about this... :)
Quote (~min 11:30): "I have never in my love done any web programming because I'm not interested, I think that kind of stuff... there's MIS people to do that for you, right? I'm interested in programming"
[edited some spelling bugs]
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#88"I like offending people, because I think the people who get offended should be offended."
Link to the source (Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA&t=61m28s
I've found it while watching the video after the "fuck you nVidia" discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4121698
Edit: Actual quote: "I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended" (without the "the" before "people").
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't reflect his opinion. First, Linus states Nvidia is an exception, one of the worst trouble spots. And he is also very upset because Nvidia at the same time tries to sell a lot of chips into the Android market, a Linux based system. Very ungrateful of Nvidia. I agree, fuck Nvidia.
Ungrateful? Since when is that part of any sensible business plan? I don't know why Linus would expect a corporation to devote significant resources to an endeavor out of kindness. Nvidia will play nicely with Linux when it becomes in their financial interests to do so. Edit: I expected downvotes and I'll gladly take them if someone can explain to me how Nvidia is being unreasonable.
Linus actually talks about this later on. He lists off some reasons for a company to be difficult and then basically says that there is nothing he can do but be sad about it. He then wishes that everybody could be as nice as him. In short, tautologically, it would be nice for Nvidia to be nice.
Nvidia is being unreasonable in the same general way as Apple is unreasonable with its walled garden and other companies are unreasonable with pollution and poor working conditions. Just because you can get away with something and it makes economic sense does not justify it and does not make it reasonable!
I really don't think we should accept every company's actions just because they make business sense. We, as consumers (and as developers) should promote altruism and good behavior. Being a corporation is no more a license to be a jerk than being a normal person--it's legal in both cases, and we should not condone it in either.
Good communities have their own standards above and beyond the law. In the academic community, plagiarism is not tolerated even if it does not infringe on copyright. The open source community should similarly not tolerate companies and individuals who use the open source software and then refuse to cooperate. And this is all that's needed: cooperation. I don't think anybody even expects Nvidia to write open source drivers; all they want is enough information to not waste time reverse engineering each chip.
In short, Nvidia is unreasonable because it is acting like a jerk. Being legal and making business sense should not justify being a jerk, and we should disparage and avoid companies that act like jerks. So yeah, fuck Nvidia.
Re: Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current moderation system isn't scaling. This post is a good example to illustrate the problem. At first glance it appears to be a flamebait title, and hence a mod who sees it may feel it's a no-brainer - correct it and move on. However, there's a nuance to it - that is exactly how Linus Torvalds expresses himself, and the original title ("Linus to Nvidia: Fuck You!", or something close to that) captured his sent…
It's been like this for a long time. It's by far the least transparent moderation in a community I've ever seen. For a long time I thought of HN as a generally smart, reasonable community (less so these days with the masses here) but the completely opaque moderation has always seemed extraordinarily, unnecessarily restrictive and elitist. It's unlikely to change at this point. The minority who care don't matter enoug…
It's certainly the only web community I've been a part of where the moderation system is constantly being complained about over the long term.