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OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

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Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#81

Post by ygra »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #79

It's a shame it's not become a bigger thing. I feel uptake has pretty much stagnated. The weird/pointless attribution requirement has really kneecaped them. A lot of open government data can not be relicensed under a more restrictive license and can't be injested. And if you want to use their data it's also inherently problematic when you need to watermark every map that uses OSM data I hope some day a truely open da…

Basically every service that provides maps requires attribution. The problem with OSM is that they cannot reasonably include other data with a license that also requires attribution at the usage site. That little »© OpenStreetMap contributors« in the corner would balloon into 600 different entries. Unless they all are fine with not being mentioned, but they typically do that not for free.

There are a number of exceptions. A few CC-BY datasets can be used in OSM because the owner is fine with an entry on a Wiki page is sufficient attribution; Bing and Esri allow their aerial images to be used and only require the changeset to mention the source; etc. But each of those is a separate agreement.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#82

Post by Freak_NL »

ygra wrote: post #74
netsharc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a huge highway bridge collapsed in Genoa, I checked OSM a few hours later, and someone had already updated the road segment as permanently closed Video has clips of the bridge falling and aftermath: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53628580

Google cheats here, though. They were able to show a recently completed bridge as completed simply by the fact that traffic was passing over it. OSM still had it within half an hour of opening, though.

The other way around is where OpenStreetMap is faster though. With Google a road which is closed (or gone) for a longer while means someone has to report it and Google employees verify it. Doing this automatically based on traffic dropping to zero is not really possible, because the algorithm doesn't know why traffic is rerouted or for how long. This can take a while depending on the number of people reporting it to Google. OpenStreetMap mappers can act autonomously much faster (errors are sometimes made, but often picked up and reverted just as fast for high profile stuff).

Google actually fucks up royally when a road below the level of a motorway/freeway is closed and formally withdrawn from public use, but still sees some traffic (by people illegally using it and people with legitimate goals like construction workers). There is a road near me where this is the case. Google will happily route cars over a road where one of the two lanes is in use as a soil depot for the nearby housing developments, and gates on both sides block the road. Those gates are shoved aside or bypassed by driving through the grass by a handful of simpletons. A bit of observation during a walk there showed me two cars passing there illegally; a postal worker and a power utility guy. Two types of road users who likely use Google Maps quite a lot, and drive up the virtual traffic there.

On OpenStreetMap this road is simply closed and limited to private use (i.e., the construction workers hauling soil), and has been for a number of years now.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#83

Post by jwagenet »

afavour wrote: post #55
aembleton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think mapy [1] is the best frontend I've seen for OSM. Its search still isn't as good as Google Maps though. They also have iOS [2] and Android [3] apps. I can't speak for the iOS app, but the Android one lets you download offline maps in a very space efficient way, similar to Organic Maps. 1. https://en.mapy.cz/zakladni?x=-2.2989613&y=53.1629710&z=8 2. https://apps.apple.com/cz/app/mapy-cz-maps-navigation/id4114..…

I feel like an ass just for saying it but I downloaded the iOS app at the map style is so… busy. Granted I’m in NYC so there’s a lot going on but it’s showing me every single bus stop (there are literally seven in a one block radius) and building outlines even when zoomed out. It’s very visually overwhelming. This is something Google and Apple Maps really nail, I hope OSM can too at some point.

IMO the default OSM tileset is terrible and the mapy set seems to be the same/similar. I guess it’s meant to show a lot of information, but the colors and patterns are noisy, the icons are too detailed, too many or too few things show up on the wrong layers. It’s been this way forever.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#84

Post by jwagenet »

beej71 wrote: post #61
afavour wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like an ass just for saying it but I downloaded the iOS app at the map style is so… busy. Granted I’m in NYC so there’s a lot going on but it’s showing me every single bus stop (there are literally seven in a one block radius) and building outlines even when zoomed out. It’s very visually overwhelming. This is something Google and Apple Maps really nail, I hope OSM can too at some point.

I get what you're asking here, but I think it's important to note that OSM's primary value is in its data, not in a human-consumable map. So if I could respectfully amend your request, I'd say I hope some third party can really nail this at some point. Organic Maps is pretty good, but I still need Google maps for a number of things. But even if that doesn't ever happen, the free OSM data is invaluable in a large numb…

Neither mapy nor the default tileset should have maximal information. Perhaps you can argue google is primarily for navigation and default OSM is not, but that doesn’t mean it should have all the OSM data represented at each layer.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#85

Post by ainonsense44 »

nurgasemetey wrote: post #24
Ruthalas wrote: post #10

If you appreciate OSM, consider installing the StreetComplete mobile app[0]! It lets you contribute to OSM in a very simple manner, via simple questions like, "Is there a marked crosswalk here?" I'm not affiliated, I just think it's cool. It's very satisfying to complete quests in your local area. [0] https://streetcomplete.app/

Is it normal that website gives 403 Forbidden?

No

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#86

Post by pwg »

bdjsiqoocwk wrote: post #77
lolc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I primarily use Osmand. Organicmaps is another option.

Which one is better? Coming from someone who doesnt know much about OSM, what I immediately notice is that accoridng to the play store osmand has in-app payments whereas organic maps doesn't.

> Which one is better?

The answer there likely dives too much into personal preferences to be a "one size fits all" answer.

Both are available on f-droid, so just try both and pick the one you prefer:

Osmand: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/

Organic Maps: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.organicmaps/

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#87

Post by AlpineG »

Freak_NL wrote: post #82
ygra wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google cheats here, though. They were able to show a recently completed bridge as completed simply by the fact that traffic was passing over it. OSM still had it within half an hour of opening, though.

The other way around is where OpenStreetMap is faster though. With Google a road which is closed (or gone) for a longer while means someone has to report it and Google employees verify it. Doing this automatically based on traffic dropping to zero is not really possible, because the algorithm doesn't know why traffic is rerouted or for how long. This can take a while depending on the number of people reporting it to…

Google took about 6 months to accept my edit to an incorrectly named park near me. I took pictures of the signs as proof of course I could not submit them as evidence but a thought someone else would report it. In OSM I could change it in a few minutes and I am not very familiar with the tool.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#88

Post by pacbard »

Freak_NL wrote: post #25
Ruthalas wrote: post #10

If you appreciate OSM, consider installing the StreetComplete mobile app[0]! It lets you contribute to OSM in a very simple manner, via simple questions like, "Is there a marked crosswalk here?" I'm not affiliated, I just think it's cool. It's very satisfying to complete quests in your local area. [0] https://streetcomplete.app/

StreetComplete is fun for casual contributions, but what OSM really needs is good local mappers. You can tell when a place has local mappers updating and monitoring changes in the real world. Even just taking care of the coming and going of shops is really useful. People who visit your area using apps like OsmAnd and OrganicMaps use that data!

Local mapping is surprisingly difficult. I believe that the commercial products (i.e., Google Maps) are viable only because there are strong incentives for people (e.g., business owners, property owners) to submit edits as they are the main way that people search for them. Without that, you get into a limbo where you have data but it's not the most updated one.

By the way, not even government agencies have good geo data, even when they should. I needed up to date address information for work, so I bought a map from my local county assessor's office. In my mind, the assessor should have the most recent data on properties, as their main mission is to collect taxes annually. I was wrong. Their data is about 4 to 5 years wrong, with whole "new" subdivisions missing from their inventory. Google Maps kind of has them on the map; I believe that their geolocation data comes from real estate platforms when new houses are on the market. OSM is about 10 years behind in my area. I am submitting edits as I find them.

If someone has a better idea on where to find address data, please let me know.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#89

Post by enigmo »

hk__2 wrote: post #14
circularfoyers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they did it because OSM in most places is very outdated or even non existent for businesses, which was probably one of the top uses of it in a search engine. Having contributed quite a lot to OSM, I can say though that it was generally a lot better for hiking tracks than Google maps.

Agreed. For up-to-date info on businesses I rely on Google Maps, but for hiking it’s totally useless compared to OSM. I still buy some "official" paper maps of the area I hike in because I’ve had bad surprises with OSM, mostly because some mappers sometimes invent some paths based on outdated, blurry aerial imagery, with no real experience of the area. I wish there were a tag like checked_at on paths to mark those th…

there are tags for this but I don’t see it used much around here, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:check_date as a starting point

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#90

Post by LucasBrandt »

smusamashah wrote: post #50

Is there a good UI for OpenStreetMap which is as good as Google Maps? I really want to contribute to OSM but the UI is not as simple as Google Maps. I do keep putting things on Google Maps but i have started to feel guilty about it.

StreetComplete is a really easy way to start contributing!
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