I have to assume that people leaving their home towns to work elsewhere is a huge driving factor of all of this.
That has only been declining while youth mental health got worse.
The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#82Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and third places outside of the consumer setting are becoming extinct because they are non-monetizable.
This last category, non-consumer third places are formerly the domain of kid-friendly community-building activities. When we talk about creating more of these and the response is, "they aren't economically viable," it's exactly the kind of economic calculus framing that I'm talking about.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#83Christopher Alexander & co. have a site "Building Living Neighborhoods" about doing just that with his Pattern Language:
> The tools offered are intended for the use of ordinary people, families, communities, developers, planners, architects, designers and builders; public officials, local representatives, and neighbors; business owners and people who have commercial interests. The processes here are expressed in the belief that the common-sense, plain truth about laying out a neighborhood, or repairing one, is equally valid for all comers, amateurs and professionals. They help people build or rebuild neighborhoods in ways that contribute something to their lives.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#84The cause is having a tiny computer in your hand all day. It's so glaringly obvious.
Is that the cause of the loss of community? Or is that a coping mechanism for the loss of community? Or a combination? I agree it's related. But that it's glaringly obviously the cause? I'd need to hear more.
i would guess one effects the other in a negative (positive?) feedback loop. access to your phone & 24/7 easy access to social media started to erode communities and now people just rely on their phones because they have zero community around. there is nothing interesting to look to if you look away from your phone because the rest of the people around you are on their phones. EVERYBODY is glued to their devices every second of the day. waiting in a line for a coffee? have to stare at instagram stories. a random boring moment where you are allowed to be alone with your thoughts and maybe observe other people around you and get to start talking to someone? why? you have your twitter feed full of rage & engagement bait.
the only thing these days that actually can foster any community is playing sports. thank god we at least still have that. can't exactly pull your phone out in the middle of a basketball or volleyball game.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#85No, absolutely not. Young people are more connected than they have ever been before, just now they are connected in some of the most unhealthy and detrimental manners possible. Instead of connecting with friends in real life, they form communities on social media, in discord channels, in video games, etc. The consequences are just barely starting to show themselves. As for the why, I think they are many reasons. The…
The article clearly states that the connections you mention don't make up a community: > Many praise the myriad benefits that smartphones and social media are said to bring; online connection can give a person a sense of “community,” we are told. We can find new friends, discover just about any idea imaginable, network, and even date through our phones. We can video chat with hundreds of people simultaneously from fa…
The people selling this idea of "online community" figured out that if they become the middleman for all of our personal interactions that they can charge us for each one or charge someone else for access to us. One of the reasons Instagram is so horrifying to me is that it takes something like "personal messages" and puts Instagram front and center in controlling whose message you see and at what time, and they use that to foster fake relationships with salespeople making marketing videos in their kitchens.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#86About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…
I've noticed the same thing even on airplanes, where everyone is offline. Unfortunately in that case almost everything is either sleeping, consuming corporate entertainment, or reading books.
BUT there are always a few people who are open to talking. I prefer talking to being on the phone when I'm in flight. I get to have a long conversation about 1/4 of flights.
If you read old books like Pilgrim's Progress you see people walking towards the same town together, and they always struck up a conversation. Look at the Canterbury Tales: some really great literature that consists just of fellow travelers having a storytelling contest! We are missing so much humanity in our kosher lives.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#87I've personally noticed that my own value of autonomy has often contributed to a reduction in social activity and community integration. I used to be very selective of what I did with others. If I had an invite from friends and the activity didn't seem immediately interesting to me, I'd decline. I've since learned to say yes more (but not always) to invites and particularly consider ones that are more outside my comf…
> If I had an invite from friends and the activity didn't seem immediately interesting to me, I'd decline. I have seen many (usually younger) people make this mistake. The mistake is thinking that the point of the activity is the activity itself. It isn't. The point is the genuine social engagement. (Edited to add:) > I've since learned to say yes more Years ago, I learned to change my default answer to things from "…
There's also a weird mistake among young people in thinking of Republicans versus Democrats as enemies to be shunned rather than the "loyal opposition" who just happen to have a different perspective. Becoming a political tribalist cuts out about half your social opportunities.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
It tracks very well with the increase in mental health issues among young people. Mobile tech and social media will be seen as the equivalent of tobacco companies in the history books of the 22nd century.
Drownings and ice cream sales also track nicely, but it doesn’t mean it’s the ice cream that’s causing the drownings.
Right, you need a mechanism. (Ice cream makes you fat, fat people can't swim, ergo drownings). Haight clearly outlines the mechanisms by which social media and smartphones have detrimental effects on mental health, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l2TdinWoM8
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#89About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…
I'm not perfect, but I do make a conscious effort to put away my phone when in transit or idling around. Not that it matters much as pretty much everyone else is stuck in their own little world. But I think it's better for my own health.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#90About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…
It can't be treated like drug addiction, though. Most people I know have a _relatively_ healthy relationship with alcohol or cannabis. The addicts, especially of hard drugs, are the odd ones out.
With phones, and before that music, and before that newspapers, it's a social norm. If you are trying to talk to people you feel like the weirdo.
And I get it, cause I don't like making myself vulnerable. I wish I talked to strangers but it's hard to undo a whole childhood of "Don't stare, don't bother them, keep to yourself, everyone loves how quiet you are, you're so mature for your age because you never talk, etc."