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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#81
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most docs are overworked for many, mostly bad reasons. Clinical overload is one thing, but healthcare is more like drowning in admin work, these days. So mostly yes, but the true answer is more complex than I can write about in a comment.

The US has 26.1 doctors per capita, while Germany has 42.5, which is a middle-of-the-road number for the developed West. Do you accept the criticism that the US simply artificially limits the supply of doctors, which leads to overwork for physicians, and worse health outcomes for patients? Do you think most doctors would take less hours for a somewhat lower salary if you it was possible?

All countries control rather strictly who can practice medicine. Yes, there is some amount of protectionism, but that happens almost everywhere. The reason is not only money, but also cultural issues. So yes, I expect that to be a valid criticism, but I don't think opening the floodgates would have the result you expect either. Access to care is a complex problem, and IMO not primarily limited by doc counts in the US.

Young docs would absolutely work less for less if possible, I think. Old docs wouldn't. IMO, that's reflected in the rise of big network providers such as Kaiser and friends.

In Europe, access to care is better IMO mainly because both patients and docs are far less aggressive, and often quite happy just doing nothing. Which is in fact the true problem about US healthcare: the culture of absolutism.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't doctors have unions in those systems also.

Yes they do! Unions though aren't the reason for the lack of cheap care, after all each party involved in a private system is incentivized to gouge as much as possible due to a lack of collective safety nets.

> collective safety nets.

as in losing jobs to ML algorithms ? What would the point of a union then :)

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#84
post #74

This is great news. Many people, even in developed countries, suffer a lack of quality dental care because of the cost. Once these devices become widespread, costs should start to drop significantly.

Why do you think that? MRI scanners are still terribly expensive machines, for example. And in most countries, the hourly wage for a dentist need not be high. It is more likely that some robot company is going to make a fortune. Whether other people profit from that is an open question.

There is apparently about to be a revolution in MRI, making them portable and cheap to run.

I've only read pop science articles on it but I think the gist is to use software (AI!) to make up for a much weaker magnet.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself a med-school-dropout, I've found myself several times telling doctors how I really feel: "You aren't paid enough for the sacrifices you made just to be able to help people that probably aren't going to listen to your advice, anyways ." Thank you for your sacrifices, including to the oncoming ML "clinicians."

Come on, doctors are some of the most highly compensated wage earners. Every working stiff at all income levels sacrifices disproportionately to their income, and if I were a high school teacher, I'd belly laugh at this doctor pity party.

Some doctors*

The front line primary care doctors and nurse practitioners dont make as much as IT people quite often.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#86
post #58
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you're right, and would be interested to hear more.

In a nutshell, no amount of lobbying will stop equivalent service for 100x cheaper. Tech does not permeate healthcare for 2 reasons: 1. mostly inapplicable. Everyone is focusing on ML model performance, but really information retrieval in healthcare is dismal and prevents the use of such new tech altogether except in very niche cases. 2. no integration in the workplace. Tech people and docs don't understand each othe…

Me and my team made a piece of successful software for patients and clinicians. It is really difficult, mostly for the reasons you state, but it is possible. It's used in about half the NHS, and I personally know three people who've used our app to successfully manage their pregnancy complication, which is great.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#87
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

[flagged]

Would you like this comment pinned to your hospital gown while going in for a surgery?

I get your salty about the economics of it, but it's not like doctors are pencil pushers.

These are skilled people that will be saving your life one day whether you like it or not.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#88
post #85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, doctors are some of the most highly compensated wage earners. Every working stiff at all income levels sacrifices disproportionately to their income, and if I were a high school teacher, I'd belly laugh at this doctor pity party.

Some doctors* The front line primary care doctors and nurse practitioners dont make as much as IT people quite often.

From what I understand, the primary care physicians that work for a large medical company don't make much, but ones that run their own practice can make double or even triple, but then they take on enormous risk.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#89

Will robot dentists facilitate the option to lay face down for procedures so that the debris and saliva falls out instead of needing the suction tool?

On first blush, this is an interesting premise. And it would seem to make sense once there is no need for human attendants, nor any potential accommodation for them.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#90

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

For another example of this, see the tooth decay vaccine (that is currently only available in Honduras):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39819248

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