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MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

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Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important) I am that person. I own two duplexes in addition to my primary residence, for a total of four residential rental units – all 2/1s made up of ~750 sq ft each. Those additional properties that I own provide hou…

> Those additional properties that I own provide housing to 6 humans who can't purchase, or just prefer not to. Of course you just ignore the fact that one of the reasons they can't purchase is because you're hoarding the damn houses. You can't buy what isn't for sale.

Rented housing isn't hoarded. The argument might have some merit if there was no market for used buildings and no market to build new housing.

But that's reality. Go on loopnet and you can see plenty of buildings for sale.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#82

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

If you raise taxes on property, rents will rise. Is that the goal?

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a distribution problem. We don't have enough pie (houses). We need more houses. Not a campaign to distribute a massive shortage slightly more evenly.

There are more empty second homes than homeless people in my state. By a factor of 10. It's a distribution problem.

Only if you have such a loose definition of vacant where it includes people who haven't yet moved into their newly acquired house.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#84
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be improved by changing the criterion: an actual human needs to be registered as living in that house and live there. LLCs, trusts, and other entities don’t count. If people want to split their time, fine, let them have as many houses as they want, declare what fraction of their time is spent in each one, and get that fractional credit for each one. Worried about a couple taking the credit for each person…

> an actual human needs to be registered as living in that house and live there Relatives. Again, these measures have been implemented across the world. Miraculously, nobody owns two homes. In cities, where competition for land is fiercest, I would further fully expect the tax to be borne by tenants. Because nothing was fundamentally fixed about the supply-demand mismatch.

Did you read the second half of my comment? If each human only gets to reduce tax on, say $500k of residence, then relatives are of limited value for abusing the system. And some of those relatives may prefer to claim their exemption on their own homes…

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#85
If we penalize home buyers for investing in real estate, then we will have a housing problem.

Those who own real estate and rent it out should be motivated to create more housing. They should get tax breaks. Not penalized with more taxes.

Thats the only sustainable way.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#86
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those additional properties that I own provide housing to 6 humans who can't purchase, or just prefer not to. Of course you just ignore the fact that one of the reasons they can't purchase is because you're hoarding the damn houses. You can't buy what isn't for sale.

The problem is not that rents are too low and sales prices are too high, which might make it appropriate to punish renting a unit and force landlords to sell. The problem is too few of both rental and ownership units.

I see this point oft repeated, usually as a shut-down for the above arguments. But i also see people claiming the complete opposite for their localities (that there are many many extra vacant homes being held than people that need them). It seems like the initial wave of arguments cited tons of statistics but over the months we've just stopped doing that for some reason as everyone's opinions have crystallized.

Stating such a strong assertion should still require at least a link

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#88
post #2

We need to stop treating real restate--especially residential real estate--as a mechanism for creating wealth. there are enough homeowners that they vote for politicians and policies that will increase the value of their "investments". All this does is simply steal money from the next generation. Our entire economic system is designed to transfer wealth from the young and poor and the old and wealthy. There is a dist…

No political remedy will work until there's a culture shift, and that's probably still a generation or two away. The baseline that people seek isn't just a reliable place to sleep, eat, and clean themselves. They want the television-depicted life: a home which they only (at most) share with a partner and some pre-adult children, where everyone has their own bedroom, and there's probably at least one more bedroom to e…

Wrong. People respond to incentives. If you have 50 years of intensives pointing to one system, then that's what you are gone get. And then you have commenters going all 'see this is what people want'.

The reality is, there is plenty of evidence that people still like other types of building and other types of neighborhoods. They were simply made illegal, economically terrible or destroyed with some other means.

You act like there wasn't a massive top-down government program to produce exactly the system the US has. There is a reason only the US looks like the US (expect for maybe Canada). Its because its was top down government policy.

The US systematically red-lines pretty much all inner-cities. Created a mortgage market that financed only single family homes in suberbia. These were often cheaper then rent you had to pay in social housing at the time.

This was then cast in concrete with some of the most strict zoning regulation anywhere. Making it basically impossible to do any other kind of development outside of the already existing city (that was redlined).

To support this a massive highway building program, with highways rammed right into the city center. Destroying large parts of existing cities (not paying people properly). Then in those cities laws were imposed to create massive amounts of parking, at direct expense of the poorer people that lived in these cities. And of course the tax system made it profitable to rip down houses and put in place surface parking-lots.

Private cars blocked public transport (often private back then) and made it non-competitive, destroying mostly car free neighborhoods that depended on that.

And of course it continues. The way the tax system works it systematically distributes tax dollars from city centers to the outside. Even poorer districts closer to city centers are more productive then suberiba. So you have those areas that get neglected, but even if they weren't neglected, they would still overpay on their taxes.

The same kind of unfair structure exists when it comes to utility as well. With existing urban cores overpaying and suberiba under-paying. Suberbia using massively more shared infrastructure to produce the same service but paying the same or less.

And of course lets not forget that all those new roads and new highways were a massive infrastructure investment, something that street-car, bus and trains didn't get.

This isn't even all. We could go on to talk about how fundamentally unfair tax assessment rules for different housing types and income groups.

But yeah, it was totally 'culture' that lead to situation. It wasn't at all a top down system. To be sure, there were lots of willing people in power on the local level that were more then happy to follow those things.

People respond to intensive. If all of a sudden subberbia would pay fair taxes and far utilities. And that goes even more for Walmart and friends, the predators of the current system. If the zoning laws didn't exist. If those highways were ripped away. If parking all of a sudden had to pay. If highway money was reinvested in high intensity bases and trains. If all those things happened I described above changed, this 'culture' wouldn't survived for even generation.

Unfortunately people are mostly blind to the systematic structure that produce 'culture'.

> And one room cottages and the modern political vision of "social housing".

Clearly you have no understanding how 'social housing' works in places like Vienna.

> but you're not going to be able to practically deliver the homes people want for everybody who wants them.

There is plenty of evidence that there is high demand for things other then single family homes. This is simply a fact. You can see this in the property prices alone. Anywhere that has a nice mixed used development, prices go threw the roof because demand is so high. The issue is supply, not demand.

Go look at the data analysis by urban3, their data shows this pretty clearly.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#89

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

It would be simpler to charge a property tax on every property and provide a tax credit to every individual based on the average property tax collected. I think it would be more robust against people trying to find loopholes.

That would also be more fair to renters. Much of the tax charged to commercial landlords would likely be passed on to their tenants. Providing renters with the same tax credit as home owners will offset that effect.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#90

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

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