Every company should be owned by its employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#81

Post by gardenhedge » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:19 AM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #69

infotainment wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre, considering that the modern CEO's only job is to issue meaningless positive statements to shareholders. If you look at many top CEOs resumes, they are almost always devoid of any real experience. People talk about replacing various jobs by AI, but I'm pretty sure an LLM could replace most CEOs and no one would notice.

I don't want to be rude but you have no idea what you are talking about and clearly have 0 insight into the day-to-day of an actual CEO. It's fine to argue that a particular CEO is underperforming, it's often true, but very few of them are "underworking" by any reasonable definition.

Empty rebuttal. Consider adding more substance to your comment. As a reader I have no idea which of you is correct.

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#82

Post by earnesti » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:19 AM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #69

infotainment wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre, considering that the modern CEO's only job is to issue meaningless positive statements to shareholders. If you look at many top CEOs resumes, they are almost always devoid of any real experience. People talk about replacing various jobs by AI, but I'm pretty sure an LLM could replace most CEOs and no one would notice.

I don't want to be rude but you have no idea what you are talking about and clearly have 0 insight into the day-to-day of an actual CEO. It's fine to argue that a particular CEO is underperforming, it's often true, but very few of them are "underworking" by any reasonable definition.

CEO's definitely are underworking. Maybe not CEO's of publicly traded companies, though.

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#83

Post by cess11 » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:20 AM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #69

infotainment wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre, considering that the modern CEO's only job is to issue meaningless positive statements to shareholders. If you look at many top CEOs resumes, they are almost always devoid of any real experience. People talk about replacing various jobs by AI, but I'm pretty sure an LLM could replace most CEOs and no one would notice.

I don't want to be rude but you have no idea what you are talking about and clearly have 0 insight into the day-to-day of an actual CEO. It's fine to argue that a particular CEO is underperforming, it's often true, but very few of them are "underworking" by any reasonable definition.

Arguably CEO:s are administrators, not workers.

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#84

Post by dclowd9901 » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:20 AM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #32

How about every employee instead gets money every month, and then can go out an buy shares in any company they want, their own or others?

Notably this is how we’ve been doing things and… notably, the chasm of pay is growing wider all the time.

So maybe time to re-evaluate the status quo?

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#85

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:21 AM UTC

_thisdot wrote: post #45

xmprt wrote: post #18

I think the most surprising thing about trends in modern executive class pay is just how steep it is compared to the median employee. It makes me wonder why shareholders outside the company are happy with it. For example, the Boeing CEO made 22M in 2022 and 32M in 2023. I'd argue that he did a much worse job in 2023 than in 2022 but somehow got paid almost 50% more. Even Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, is "only" being p…

Counter point. Most of salary is decided based on how much of a loss it would be if you left. A CEO leaving a company can immediately lead to serious consequences whereas an individual employee can leave and no one might bat an eye

True, but that's partly because power is excessively concentrated in executive officers and as a group of people they are (imho) excessively invested in leadership rhetoric that leads them to develop misconceptions about their contribution to the firm's success. Not wholly unlike ships' captains, when they're doing their job job well they're mostly just keeping an eye on things and while the execution is delegated across the organization. When they mess up it's catastrophic.

This is not to say I don't think CEOs do any work. They may make major contributions in terms of developing strategic plans, communicating them to staff and inspiring them to carry them out well, negotiating with allies, outmaneuvering competitors, and balancing the conflicting imperatives of operations, finance, security, legal and so on. But they're not compensated for labor so much as given (via negotiation) a commission on profits, revenue, stock price movement or suchlike. Inevitably there are conflicts of interest with shareholders, staff, and customers, and as a class CEOs and other high level executives seem to have tilted the tables more and more in their favor over recent decades.

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#86

Post by eru » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:21 AM UTC

Owning their employer is a rough deal for employees.

My career is already tied up to my industry and to my employer. I don't need to increase that exposure even more.

I'd rather invest in an index fund, than hold more stocks of my employer than I need to. (If anything, I should probably short my industry, so that my overall exposure is neutral.)

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#87

Post by dclowd9901 » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:21 AM UTC

shswkna wrote: post #55

There are many advantages to having employees own shares in a company. However, I would add that it depends on the industry, type of company and other circumstances. These are factors that play a role and should add to a more nuanced discussion: - Ownership also implies responsibilities and risk. There might be capital risks or surety needed for certain industries. Not all people want this in their lives. - For any c…

As a business owner of a small growing business, I don’t want employees who aren’t invested in the company. I think we use that same rubric in startups. How is this any different?

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#88

Post by Shihan » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:21 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #35

oleg_antonyan wrote: post #3

It's insane how socialism is growing in the west after defeat of soviet union

Did the Soviet Union ever actually practice effective social policy and embrace control from the lowest working level or did they just run with epilet backed dull grey committees with a promise they'd eventually get to actual socialism and communism post Stalin and all that not socialism stuff? I'm no fan of the USSR but they're arguably no more socialist than the National Socialism of the Nazis.

Yeah, communism hasn't been really tried yet - let's try it again, I believe this time it will just work out.

On a sidenote, please read "The Gulag Archipelago".

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#89

Post by roenxi » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:22 AM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #18

I think the most surprising thing about trends in modern executive class pay is just how steep it is compared to the median employee. It makes me wonder why shareholders outside the company are happy with it. For example, the Boeing CEO made 22M in 2022 and 32M in 2023. I'd argue that he did a much worse job in 2023 than in 2022 but somehow got paid almost 50% more. Even Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, is "only" being p…

I doubt they are happy as much as disinterested. The economy has been heavily financialised, interest rates have been at 0% [0] and a big chunk of economic activity is government spending. Shareholders don't appear to be worried about how the company actually runs in the details. What matters is that the CEO is positioning them to tap in to the money printing and borrowing game. IE, the wages suggest workers don't really matter because they don't. Profits will come from things like being in Crypto or AI booms at the right time.

It isn't the be all and end all, but I'd rather be a shareholder in, say, a military production company with solid government contacts & contracts than one with capable workers.

[0] Thank goodness that has finally changed but there is a bit of a lag while everyone catches up to the new normal.

Re: Every company should be owned by its employees

#90

Post by eru » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:22 AM UTC

oneshtein wrote: post #44

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are lazy. You can always sell your grant as you get it, they can’t make holding stock mandatory, but a lot of people (including me) just hold the stock in a really undiversified portfolio.

This will tank price of shares.

Huh, why, how?