Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

endeavorrx.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 243 posts

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#81

Post by loopdoend »

routerl wrote: post #20
umbra07 wrote: post #10

I've been on this for about a month and a half now. The game itself isn't engaging at all. It was a struggle to get myself to actually play the game regularly, for the allotted time (30 minutes, 5 days a week). It feels like a pretty big flaw with the game - after all, one of the challenges that people with ADHD face is forcing themselves to do things they don't want to do. This game is a complete bore, and I can't i…

Thanks for your perspective. I've known and lived with several people who have ADHD, and you've expressed exactly the perspective I expected to hear from them. "Games as treatment" are a new frontier of "selling bullshit". This happened before in education, and it's now making its way into health care. The problem, here, is that the users aren't any part of how these games are designed. Everything about them is just…

And let’s be honest they’re just torturing people with no positive outcome. The net effect is you have a poorer, more frustrated patient, who has this stupid game burned into their memories.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#82

Post by xlii »

Aurornis wrote: post #39
ben_sisko wrote: post #29

Stimulant medication for ADHD has the highest effect size in all of psychiatry. ADHD is highly treatable, when people are properly treated. This just feels like something that somebody made for the parents who are pathologically drug averse at the expense of their children. Of course, the parents don’t realize that their kids don’t get that development time back, so the longer they wait, the harder things can get for…

Nonstimulant medication is also very effective, but with the caveat that it takes longer to kick in. The second caveat is that it’s devoid of any recreational value during the startup period, which has an outsized effect on people’s perception of the medication “working”. Stimulant medication tends to be favorably accepted at first (for entirely unsurprising reasons, even though some people don’t experience quite the…

Could you share some sources on stimulants discontinuation?

High discontinuation rate around stimulants aligns with my observations but I was wondering if that was only because of limited medication options where I am (not only for stimulants but in general).

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#83

Post by hawski »

Just yesterday I read about Interactive Metronome and thought how it could easily model to various games. I am now quite sure that many games, especially classic ones, could try to get some sort of certification.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#84

Post by Micanthus »

ykonstant wrote: post #75
Aurornis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonstimulant medication is also very effective, but with the caveat that it takes longer to kick in. The second caveat is that it’s devoid of any recreational value during the startup period, which has an outsized effect on people’s perception of the medication “working”. Stimulant medication tends to be favorably accepted at first (for entirely unsurprising reasons, even though some people don’t experience quite the…

Which non-stimulant medication do you have in mind?

Likely guanfacine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine

Looks really promising for people who don't like stimulants or can't take them for other reasons, slowly gaining popularity as well. Unfortunately not yet approved for adults in Europe, or I would have tried it. I'm fine with stimulants, but I'm a little wary of the effects on heart health over decades and I would like my appetite back. I also dislike that with stimulants I don't have any attention span in the evening, guanfacine provides more of a steady effect from what I can tell.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#85

Post by lazyasciiart »

gcheong wrote: post #58
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When the facts change, I don't change my opinion."

Which facts? I was wrong about the evidence needed for marketing authorization but, if I’m not mistaken, they would need that authorization in order to market the product in the first place so mentioning the FDA authorization would, in my opinion, potentially give people the wrong impression that the FDA has endorsed the product at a level (e.g. approval) which I don’t believe the FDA has done at this point.

They have endorsed the product in the only way applicable. There are different processes for drugs and “medical devices” and this one falls under devices. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/it-really-fda...

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#86

Post by Micanthus »

qingcharles wrote: post #56
piperswe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caffeine builds physical dependence easier than amphetamine, AFAIK

Is caffeine strong enough to have any serious effect on ADHD? It barely touches my concentration difficulties.

I took caffeine pills to self-medicate before I got diagnosed. It was better than nothing, but nothing compared to proper medication. Taking enough caffeine to concentrate properly also made me shake a little bit, so not super fun

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#87

Post by latentsea »

umbra07 wrote: post #10

I've been on this for about a month and a half now. The game itself isn't engaging at all. It was a struggle to get myself to actually play the game regularly, for the allotted time (30 minutes, 5 days a week). It feels like a pretty big flaw with the game - after all, one of the challenges that people with ADHD face is forcing themselves to do things they don't want to do. This game is a complete bore, and I can't i…

I can barely get myself to play games I'm actually interested in, since there's always something slightly more interesting than that. I can imagine this would be not only a complete non-starter but also... how is this specific video game supposed to help?

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#88

Post by romwell »

Aurornis wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our stupid phobia of stimulants is a major blocker too. Making it hard to get ADD drugs does nothing to address abuse of street drugs like meth. Unlike opiates there is no evidence they lead people toward street drugs. I’m personally in favor of OTC availability of some kind of safe abuse resistant mild stimulant. Sure there are a few people who would try to get high with it but hard liquor and weed are legal.

One of my friends works in the rehab field. Prescription stimulants are a common starting point for a lot of younger kids entering their programs right now. One of the major problems is some primary care doctors and nurse practitioners have started prescribing stimulants to anyone who requests them. Even worse, some of these people are prescribing unreasonably high doses (some times 2/3rd of the maximum allowable dos…

>Prescription stimulants are a common starting point for a lot of younger kids entering their programs right now.

So is drinking water, I presume.

This has "weed is a gateway drug" written all over it.

>It’s not just pointless fear mongering

It is pointless fear mongering in the sense that the risks are very low for the people with the condition the stimulant is prescribed for.

If you wear prescription glasses for fun, you can screw up your vision easily.

If you take chemotherapy for fun, you will mess up your health.

Heck, wearing wrong size shoes for extended periods of time will destroy your feet.

So go figure, people who don't have ADHD and take meds for ADHD are messing up their health.

The big question is why protecting people who are abusing the medication is more important than making it available to people who need it.

Abusing the meds has adverse effects, sure.

Not having access to meds has much stronger adverse effects. Like not being able to function in this society (getting an education, holding a job, having a relationship), depression, and higher suicide rates.

The risks from abusing Adderall are, as far as I know, significantly smaller in comparison.

But somehow, increasing risk of death for ADHD folks is deemed acceptable in this society if it can be done under the pretense of reducing alcoholism (without much evidence that it actually addresses the problem).

>These drugs are very popular recreationally among high school and college students and prescriptions are often sought to allow them to drink more alcohol for longer into the night.

So, we're talking about people who are already determined to get wasted on alcohol, and somehow, it's Adderall that is the problem here — not the alcohol, not the alcoholics, not the party culture, and not the fact that removing Adderall from the equation still leaves you with people who are determined to drink beyond what they know they can handle.

I'm without words.

Disclaimer: I have ADHD[1], and I have benefited tremendously from having access to medication[2] after getting a late diagnosis[3] at the age of 34.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd

[2] https://romankogan.net/adhd#Medication

[3] https://romankogan.net/adhd#Diagnosis

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#89

Post by romwell »

contravert wrote: post #72
pogue wrote: post #53

Here's a video of a doctor playing the game along with sort of an explanation of how it works and is meant to do. I'd be curious to know how much this costs for patients. I'm guessing it's some type of a subscription model. https://youtube.com/watch?v=qkhSLr6DlWc

Watching the video, it's not really clear how this game is substantially different than a normal mobile game. What is the actual mechanism here for treating ADHD?

Placebo effect for parents who pay money for this, I assume.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#90

Post by romwell »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #44
ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They include some clinical research info at the end of the usage instructions PDF[0]. One says results were not statistically significant and the other has a warning that it may be placebo effect since they didn’t have a “sham control group”. (I don't have enough stats knowledge to know what any of this actually means though.) 0: https://www.endeavorrx.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Endeav... (pdf)

In their largest study, they found that 4 weeks of treatment improved ADHD scores by 1 standard deviation, and this was highly significant. That's the equivalent of going from the 5th percentile to the 35th - definitely a meaningful improvement.

What "ADHD scores" are we talking about?

There's no such thing as the "ADHD score".

Post reply on HN