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No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

fourthamendment.com

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Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#81

Post by konha »

epigramx wrote: post #77
judge2020 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual accuracy is worse than before but it’s a welcome change. They do still offer a way to keep an encrypted backup of the database on Google servers (so you don’t lose it if you lose your phone) but its disabled by default and it doesn’t even have a modal popup making it easy to enable backups, you have to specifically click the UI button to see the modal with the info sheet and a button to enable backing it u…

> a welcome change Can someone explain why it's good that your official law infrastructure has no access to Google when in need? Is this some kind of bizzaro-extermist-libertarianism "government is evil" from America again?

Dragnet searches are controversial in many societies, not just the US.

There’s a balance between individuals rights to privacy and what makes law enforcement easier.

One argument against broad surveillance measures like this one is that surveillance infrastructure is easy to implement and hard to get rid of again. You might be fine with the laws that are enforced with it today, but you might not be with what it’s used for in the future.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#82

Post by chii »

photonthug wrote: post #40
vineyardmike wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else. I completely agree, but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life, or at least recognize that they have an association cost to the user. What is the reasonable expectation of a business to profit off a product that we’ve deemed “required”? Who would make or support…

> I completely agree, but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life, or at least recognize that they have an association cost to the user. What is the reasonable expectation of a business to profit off a product that we’ve deemed “required”? Who would make or support a product they can’t profit on? We kind of urgently need new models for certain things that start as for-pro…

> they [google] should pay license fees for the GPS technology

but you yourself don't pay for your own access to GPS - so why should google foot a bill?

> access to water/air.

there's no universally free access to water. And i imagine in a future dystopian world, air could be metered out for which you have to pay, or breath polluted air.

> having some explicit expiration date for service-monopoly as well as idea-monopoly.

i think this is just another way of having the gov't authorities nationalize assets. If google maps is so useful, and you can't live without it, they are by definition generating value and they needs to be paid, in perpetuity as long as said value from the service is being produced. It's actually somewhat amazing that they're able to sustain this value production fueled by purely using advertising and private data extraction/exploitation.

I mean, if you use farms as a example of your idea of expiration dates, it will start to sound like communism!

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#83

Post by nonrandomstring »

kibwen wrote: post #32
steelframe wrote: post #29

I run GrapheneOS on my phone and have all location permissions denied for everything except for (offline) Organic Maps. I also make it a habit of keeping airplane mode enabled except on the (very) rare occasion when I need to make an outbound phone call while out of the house. With the recent revelations about the triangulated location data that AT&T left exposed for all of its customers I don't feel like this is an…

It's not an overreaction. The idea of everyone willingly sharing the details of their every movement with sociopathic corporations who are beholden to national security letters would have been met with ridicule 30 years ago.

It's met with ridicule now, but the value of ridicule has slumped in 30 years.

Ian Levy, when he was at NCSC spoke about "shame as a weapon against Big Tech". But he missed a crucial flaw - they do not give a fuck. Shame and ridicule only work in societies where people have dignity, self-respect, mutuality and care.

It's true that nobody has any reasonable expectation of privacy when using a Google smartphone. But the ruling talks about "willingly". What does "will" have to do with modern life where people are badgered incessantly to surrender their choice, boundaries, and dignity?

To exercise "will" these days, is quite a big deal, and usually means going against the flow and suffering some loss.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#84

Post by dotancohen »

gruez wrote: post #18
jmward01 wrote: post #9

Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications. It is meaningless to present an option you are forced to agree to. Additionally there is, to me, a big difference between me enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else.

>Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications From the second paragraph in the linked article: >Location History is turned off by default, so a user must take several affirmative steps before Google begins tracking and storing his Location History data. [...] Roughly one-third of active Google users have enabled Location History. This is specifically about the…

I have a hard time believing that one third of any user base ever changes any particular default setting, much less something this buried.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#85

Post by krackers »

modeless wrote: post #68
Sytten wrote: post #45

Is there an alternative to google location history that is privacy friendly? I like the feature during trips to record where I went. Maybe just me but when I get a bit nostalgic I like to retrace my steps and find again some lost memories/places.

Google Location History is privacy friendly now. It was just recently changed a month or two ago and it no longer works in the way the article describes. The history data is now stored on your phone. Cloud backups are optional and default off and always end-to-end encrypted if enabled, so your location history database is not ever accessible to any Google server. Google made this change in response to issues like the…

>not ever accessible to any google server

How can they use it for ad targeting then?

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#86

Post by dotancohen »

justinpombrio wrote: post #47
_heimdall wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications We don't have to accept this though, everyone in the modern world makes a choice to accept the implied requirements of being part of the system. We accept the assumption that we are all online, that we all have a mobile phone, and that we all keep up with news and pop culture to an extent that we all seem to zero i…

> Anyone can choose to avoid any one of these parts of the modern world. Well my apartment building is about to replace the doorbells with a cell phone app (or phone calls as an alternative). No cell phone -> no door bell. I'm just a renter; I get no say in the matter.

Can people not still rap their knuckles upon your chamber door?

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#87

Post by dotancohen »

jmward01 wrote: post #9

Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications. It is meaningless to present an option you are forced to agree to. Additionally there is, to me, a big difference between me enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else.

  > a big difference between me enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else.
Making this distinction a legal requirement was a very important part of the GDPR.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#88

Post by ajb »

epigramx wrote: post #77
judge2020 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual accuracy is worse than before but it’s a welcome change. They do still offer a way to keep an encrypted backup of the database on Google servers (so you don’t lose it if you lose your phone) but its disabled by default and it doesn’t even have a modal popup making it easy to enable backups, you have to specifically click the UI button to see the modal with the info sheet and a button to enable backing it u…

> a welcome change Can someone explain why it's good that your official law infrastructure has no access to Google when in need? Is this some kind of bizzaro-extermist-libertarianism "government is evil" from America again?

Statistically, you can't rely on having a non-repressive government for your entire lifetime. The US has been fortunate in missing out on it for quite a while, but even then there has been HUAC and J Edgar Hoover, even if they didn't take over the whole government.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#89

Post by dotancohen »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #83
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an overreaction. The idea of everyone willingly sharing the details of their every movement with sociopathic corporations who are beholden to national security letters would have been met with ridicule 30 years ago.

It's met with ridicule now, but the value of ridicule has slumped in 30 years. Ian Levy, when he was at NCSC spoke about "shame as a weapon against Big Tech". But he missed a crucial flaw - they do not give a fuck. Shame and ridicule only work in societies where people have dignity, self-respect, mutuality and care. It's true that nobody has any reasonable expectation of privacy when using a Google smartphone. But th…

  > shame as a weapon against Big Tech
Shame is far more often used as a weapon promoting Big Tech. I am constantly ridiculed for not having Facebook or Whatsapp accounts, and many people that I meet are suspicious of me. Try meeting women on Tinder without Whatsapp.

Re: No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

#90

Post by bad_username »

boschfish wrote: post #70
Sytten wrote: post #45

Is there an alternative to google location history that is privacy friendly? I like the feature during trips to record where I went. Maybe just me but when I get a bit nostalgic I like to retrace my steps and find again some lost memories/places.

I have been using https://scoria.info/ . It is privacy first and offers great flexibility with how you can filter, view, and export your location data.

Importing existing Google timeline data would be useful, but doesn't look like it's supported.
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