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How to do the jhanas

nadia.xyz

81–90 of 112 posts

Re: How to do the jhanas

#81
post #60

Please take care. There's the "dark night of the soul". Everybody is different. I and my wife experienced something similar to this phenomenon but my wife decades (!) earlier than me and she was completely alone. She had meditation therapy because of her cerebral palsy and when she fell into the night dark nobody understood her. I learnt a lot from her experience. Today I explain it like this: If you realize that eve…

There is usually a marked difference between "insight" practice (that give realisation about the fundamental nature of experiences) and "concentration" practice (i.e. jhanas). Just practicing jhanas is not all that conducive to mental upset - you purify your behaviour, focus the mind, suppress the hindrances, and experience intense states of wholesome qualities that take over your consciousness for a while. There's n…

Note that "insight" meditation without Samadhi/Jhana practice is sometimes called "dry insight", and a lot of "insight" focused teachers still emphasize Smadhi/Jhana as an important part of practice.

Also note that generally, traditional Buddhism tends to see building virtue in everyday life as a necessary prerequisite for meditation. You can be a lay Buddhist by being virtuous but not meditating, but not the other way around. A lot of people in our western culture tend to approach it the other way, with meditation as the defining practice and virtue as a secondary thought. I remember hearing of a meditation teacher who loved to start meditation retreats by saying something like "most of you would probably benefit more from hosting a family of refugees, rather than coming to a silent retreat", which would upset quite a few participants. If you want to ground this in meditation, practices such as "loving kindness" meditation are very helpful, and can help overcome/avoid a dark night.

There are also other more "modern" "traditions" (if you can call something that is at most a few decades old a tradition) that can help deepening insight into emptiness _while_ also increasing a sense of wonder and respect for the world, rather than falling into nihilism. I am in particular thinking in Rob Burbea's "Soulmaking Dhamma". To summarize it, he proposes that, given the insight that there is no reality without a "way of looking" (his way to summarize emptiness), it is not only OK to embrace a way of looking, but we have flexibility in doing so - and switching between such ways of looking in this way helps deepen insight into emptiness, rather than lead to delusion.

This does not make immune to feelings of confusion and grief, but can help work with them. Also note I am by no way a spiritual teacher, and what helped me might not help you.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#82
post #4

It is not even access concentration the Jhana 1 description. It is "just" the natural joy that arises from doing wholesome states like ethical behavior or generosity or unconditional love. (Which is good! Really good! just lets not appropriate the term 'jhana') It is great people are discovering that there is a happiness within that is not dependent on getting things or things being a certain way and you can increase…

Isn't the goal 'may I be happy' at odds with the underlying philosophy as it ignores the reality that without sadness, we cannot understand being happy. Wouldn't 'may i be at peace' or 'may i be present' be more suitable? And even futher 'may I' is a wishing of a future state which is a attachment to a certain state and which also means we are not at peace nor present. If we constantly wish this, are we not missing t…

the point is as artificial as any of the rest of it

monkeys colliding in the dark, chittering about what they feel

to “we” it is to flee it

Re: How to do the jhanas

#83

$1000+ for an online meditation retreat from a few guys with only a few years experience. Everything I hate about capitalism. How to take something beautiful and turn it into a cash cow :(

I got skeptical when I saw that. These practices are supposed to, from my current understanding, help you see reality clearly by making you more aware of impermanence, dhukka, and not-self.

I don't mind participating or even paying for a retreat, but it seems like they're trying to sell the positive aspects of it too much like it's some spiritual drug. There are quotes on there making comparisons to doing these "jhanna" practices instead of eating another slice of cake?

Re: How to do the jhanas

#84
post #2

I've been meditating pretty consistently for the last year 20 min meditations or more every day and though I've put way more than the time the OP put in trying to achieve jhanas I couldn't even reach the first one. I wonder what I'm missing!

Do it longer. 20 minutes is just a settling in period. The more you do it the better you get.

Physical exercise first can help one mentally calm down quicker.

Finally, studying others methods is helpful. The book "the six dharma gates to the sublime" was helpful for me personally for jhana practices, and there are lots of other great resources and teachers available if you look.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#85
post #45

> But with just over 20 hours of practice, I progressed through all nine jhanic states. This is simply not true. It would be silly to deny that the author had some particular experience(s), but author absolutely did not have the described (quoted) experience. This "words have whatever meaning I decide they have" world goes absolutely nowhere productive or useful. I'd love it if you all would stop doing it.

I dunno. I heard a story about Ayya Khema that she basically just stayed up all night for a while just committed to learning the jhanas. One of the problems with all the stuff is that it's very hard for us to know what other people have experienced. So who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Let's not be so closed-minded about it. People are different.

Most of the "results" of various forms of "meditation" have an element of "time served" (time spent "doing" the particular "activity") before they arise.

It is extremely common for people to experience an "early" result and mistakenly believe it is a "later" (much later) result. Among the many reasons why one is not supposed to develop attachments to the "results" is this very mistake.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#86
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge that this describes the (very?) shallow end of the pool but these language game land wars are profoundly uninteresting to me. This–and TWIM jhanas in general–certainly involve the arising of the relevant jhana factors. People feel real and somewhat life-changing experiences of piti, sukha, equanimity… are those, due to limited concentration, below some critical threshol…

> these language game land wars "Energy" is also a "language game war" between internet posts on physics and professional physics. > This–and TWIM jhanas in general–certainly involve the arising of the relevant jhana factors. Yes. So someone suggested calling them "mindfulness of the jhana factors". Also the word for joy in several languages is "piti". We can talk of joy and happiness, and see it's not the same as jh…

[deleted]

Re: How to do the jhanas

#87
post #62
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge that this describes the (very?) shallow end of the pool but these language game land wars are profoundly uninteresting to me. This–and TWIM jhanas in general–certainly involve the arising of the relevant jhana factors. People feel real and somewhat life-changing experiences of piti, sukha, equanimity… are those, due to limited concentration, below some critical threshol…

Claiming that someone attains Arhat (or Arahant, if you are used to Theravada texts) with just a couple of meditation retreats is just wild. Because the 9 dhyana, or 9 samadhi, or 9 Juana corresponded to the level of wisdom of an Arhat. It corresponds to enlightenment in Theravada, and in Mahayana too - just not the "biggest" one. So it's actually very harmful to do these claims; each dhyana (or jhana) level correspo…

>Claiming that someone attains Arhat (or Arahant, if you are used to Theravada texts) with just a couple of meditation retreats is just wild. Because the 9 dhyana, or 9 samadhi, or 9 Juana corresponded to the level of wisdom of an Arhat. It corresponds to enlightenment in Theravada, and in Mahayana too - just not the "biggest" one.

To be fair, the Pali Canon is filled with episodes of followers spontaneously achieving arahantship after practicing only a brief time. I'm having trouble finding the sutta, but even the Buddha says with a single moment of appropriate practice, enlightenment is obtainable immediately.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#88
post #4

It is not even access concentration the Jhana 1 description. It is "just" the natural joy that arises from doing wholesome states like ethical behavior or generosity or unconditional love. (Which is good! Really good! just lets not appropriate the term 'jhana') It is great people are discovering that there is a happiness within that is not dependent on getting things or things being a certain way and you can increase…

This is what I expected just from the title- anytime I’ve seen the jhanas mentioned online most of the responses are “that’s not the jhanas, this person does not even understand what they are” and then the followup comments are each someone saying the same about the above commenter.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#89
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's no real difference between you, me, and Mr. Gautama in mental structure. circumstances of course matter, but instruction, especially the interactivity is decisive. yes, there's a practice element, to do the dissociative steps well, to get the right body sensations amplified with the right mental ones, etc. the start-up-y way is not better or worse for you if it works. the traditional way(s) work vy constraini…

> there's no real difference between you, me, and Mr. Gautama in mental structure. This is just not true. There are athletes with sub 100ms reaction time. The average person is over twice of that. It only makes sense that there are meditative athletes whose abilities surpass those of the average guy.

The ancient meditation wizards of yore preferred to recruit those with "habitual one-pointed attention" (these days we call them aspergers etc). Because they are uncommonly good at concentration.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#90
I was ten years into Vipassana before trying the Jhanas and found them challenging. two years practising, I eventually got them. I found leigh brasingtons stuff very useful on it, though I think he was born with the "concentration" ability somewhat, while others like me have to struggle harder to get there. https://www.leighb.com/sitemap.htm

he also had a clinical study done while he went into the jhana states that is worth a look. that can be found here - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659471/

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