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Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

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Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#81

Post by logicallee »

madsbuch wrote: post #73
logicallee wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the most incredible coincidence. Three million paying OpenAI customers spend $20 per month (compare: NetFlix standard: $15.49/month) thinking they're chatting with something in natural language that actually understands what they're saying, but it's just statistics and they're only getting high-probability responses without any understanding behind it! Can you imagine spending a full year showing up to talk to a…

i am not sure where this comment fits as an answer to my comment. Firstly, do understand that I am not saying that LLMs (or ChatGPT) do understand. I am merely saying that we don't have any sound frameworks to assess it. For the rest of your rant: I definitely see that you don't derive any value from ChatGPT. As such I really hope you are not paying for it - or wasting your time on it. What other people decide to spe…

I added an /s tag to my comment.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#82

Post by kingsleyopara »

What often gets overlooked in these discussions is how much of the human brain is hardwired as a consequence of millions of years of evolution. Approximately 85% of human genes are used to encode the structure of the brain [0]. I find this particularly impressive when I consider how complex the rest of the body is. To relate this to LLMs, I'm tempted to think this is more like pre-training rather than straightforward model design.

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/tp2015153

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#83

Post by dist-epoch »

ben_w wrote: post #78
dist-epoch wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our intelligence happened without an existing one. primordial cell -> intelligent human through Darwinian evolution.

I would argue that evolution is a form of intelligence in its own right, albeit one very alien to us. But that doesn't change your point, as there's no reason to require an intelligence to create evolution.

There are some which argue that "ever increasing complexity" is a law/consequence of physics.

https://www.space.com/scientists-propose-missing-law-evoluti...

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#84

Post by phantompeace »

mirekrusin wrote: post #71
cynusx wrote: post #31

The comparison doesn't really hold. He is comparing energy spend during inference in humans with energy spend during training in LLM's. Humans spend their lifetimes training their brain so one would have to sum up the total training time if you are going to compare it to the training time of LLM's. At age 30 the total energy use of the brain sums up to about 5000 Wh, which is 1440 times more efficient. But at age 30…

Also you can't cp human brain.

Not yet, anyway.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#85

Post by cjk2 »

ben_w wrote: post #75
cjk2 wrote: post #22

I think GPT-4 is way more than 3 million times more efficient than my brain. All it does is a lot of multiplication and adding and my brain is crap at that.

Just because GPT-4 uses matrix multiplication doesn't mean it can perform matrix multiplication — lots of people complain how bad LLMs are at arithmetic. My brain uses quantum mechanics for protein folding, my mind cannot perform the maths of QM.

Surely it can, just slowly and with poor accuracy :)

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#86

Post by gus_massa »

tromp wrote: post #37

> run on the equivalent of 24 Watts of power per hour. In comparison GPT-4 hardware requires SWATHES of data-centre space and an estimated 7.5 MW per hour. power per hour makes no sense, since power is already energy (in Joule) per unit of time (second).

I agree.

But it also compares one human with the whole GTP-4. It's like comaring a limonade stand with Coca Cola Inc.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#87

Post by wruza »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #53

I don't care. I've come to the conclusion that gpt and gemini and all the others are nothing but conversational search engines. They can give me ideas or point me in the right direction but so do regular search engines. I like the conversation ability but, in the end, I cannot trust their results and still have to research further to decide for myself if their results are valid.

I’m a local LLM elite who stopped using chat mode whatsoever.

I just go into the notebook tab (with an empty textarea) and start writing about a topic I’m interested in, then hit generate. It’s not a conversation, just an article in a passive form. The “chat” is just a protocol of in a form of an article with a system prompt at the top and “AI: …\nUser: …\n” afterwards, all wrapped into a chat ui.

While the article is interesting, I just read it (it generates forever). When it goes sideways, I stop it and modify the text in a way that fits my needs, in a recent place or maybe earlier, and then hit generate again.

I find this mode superior to complaining to a bot, since wrong info/direction doesn’t spoil the content. Also you don’t have to wait or interrupt, it’s just a single coherent flow that you can edit when necessary. Sometimes I stop it at “it’s important to remember …” and replace it with a short disclaimer like “We talked about safety already. Anyway, back to ” and hit generate.

Fundamentally, LLMs generate texts, not conversations. Conversations just happen to be texts. It’s something people forget / aren’t aware of behind these stupid chat interfaces.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#88

Post by vasco »

mirekrusin wrote: post #71
cynusx wrote: post #31

The comparison doesn't really hold. He is comparing energy spend during inference in humans with energy spend during training in LLM's. Humans spend their lifetimes training their brain so one would have to sum up the total training time if you are going to compare it to the training time of LLM's. At age 30 the total energy use of the brain sums up to about 5000 Wh, which is 1440 times more efficient. But at age 30…

Also you can't cp human brain.

We can clone humans at current level of technology, otherwise there wouldn't be agreements about not doing it due to the ethical implications. Of course its just reproducing the initial hardware and not the memory contents or the changes in connections that happen at runtime.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#89

Post by CuriouslyC »

cynusx wrote: post #31

The comparison doesn't really hold. He is comparing energy spend during inference in humans with energy spend during training in LLM's. Humans spend their lifetimes training their brain so one would have to sum up the total training time if you are going to compare it to the training time of LLM's. At age 30 the total energy use of the brain sums up to about 5000 Wh, which is 1440 times more efficient. But at age 30…

You're doing apples and oranges.

Humans who spend a long time doing inference have not fully learned the thing being inferred - unlike LLMs, when we are undertrained, rather than a huge spike in error rate, we go slower.

When humans are well trained, human inference absolutely destroys LLMs.

Re: Why your brain is 3 milion more times efficient than GPT-4

#90

Post by marginalia_nu »

mirekrusin wrote: post #71
cynusx wrote: post #31

The comparison doesn't really hold. He is comparing energy spend during inference in humans with energy spend during training in LLM's. Humans spend their lifetimes training their brain so one would have to sum up the total training time if you are going to compare it to the training time of LLM's. At age 30 the total energy use of the brain sums up to about 5000 Wh, which is 1440 times more efficient. But at age 30…

Also you can't cp human brain.

You kinda can do a sort of LoRA though. Reading the right book can not only change what you hold true, but how you think.
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