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TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

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Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#81

Post by lupire »

Tomte wrote: post #19
lelandfe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The courts will be pleased as punch to hear it is that easy /s

The courts have repeatedly ruled on this. Well-known case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_selfie_copyright_disp...

This is a fascinating comment.

Taken alone, it is concise, correct, and well-cited. It does lack a crux, though.

But in context, seeing the commenter's previous comment, there is an implied Cruz that is the opposite of the truth, since a reader assumes that any comment is implicitly in support of the commenter's previous comment, and in opposition to the proximate comment it is in reply to, unless otherwise indicated.

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#82

Post by lupire »

hnfong wrote: post #42
Tomte wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those questions are all interesting in themselves, but utterly irrelevant here. The first one asks if someone else than the „prompter“ should have copyright. The second one asks about other people‘s copyright. The third one is answered by case law, including the Monkey Selfie case. The wildlife photography setup is very much comparable to your typewriter there.

The wildlife photography setup had no human intervention when the photo was created since the monkey took the selfie. In this case TinyLetter was "written" by GPT4o with a LOT of prompting. Have you even read it? https://github.com/i365dev/LetterDrop/blob/main/docs/CDDR/ap... As always, some random person in a tech forum thinks they have all the answers to non-trivial legal questions... I mean, we haven't even talked…

LetterDrop, not TinyLetter!

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#83

Post by lupire »

Tomte wrote: post #39
newaccount74 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the question whether machines can hold copyright is decisively shut and closed That's just a small part of the question. Some of the questions we still need answers for are: 1) If ChatGPT produces an answer that is very similar to something it was trained on, can you use that answer? Or do you need a license from the original author? If you do need a license, how do you figure out if an answer is close enough to so…

Those questions are all interesting in themselves, but utterly irrelevant here. The first one asks if someone else than the „prompter“ should have copyright. The second one asks about other people‘s copyright. The third one is answered by case law, including the Monkey Selfie case. The wildlife photography setup is very much comparable to your typewriter there.

You're losing the plot and contradicting yourself across your comments.

What exactly is the thesis you are trying to argue?

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#84

Post by lupire »

FireInsight wrote: post #41
Tomte wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those questions are all interesting in themselves, but utterly irrelevant here. The first one asks if someone else than the „prompter“ should have copyright. The second one asks about other people‘s copyright. The third one is answered by case law, including the Monkey Selfie case. The wildlife photography setup is very much comparable to your typewriter there.

If there's a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters, and they all write a single page to a thousand-page epic, is the scientist allowed to copyright and sell it as a book?

In the US, absolutely. The scientist set up the conditions and curated the output, and animals have no creative copyright privileges of their own.

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#85

Post by ukuina »

7bit wrote: post #66
croes wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't GPT4 non deterministic? So the same prompt won't necessarily give the same result

Yes, it is non-deterministic from our point of view, because OpenAI does not let us set the seed.

Sure you can: https://platform.openai.com/docs/api-reference/chat/create#c...

It does not guarantee determinism, though, because of the nature of GPT4o's optimizations.

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#86

Post by phantompeace »

latexr wrote: post #50
braza wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the code is godawful You would be surprised on how big corporations are running on not so elegant code and generating revenue all over. I used to be more principled around code best practices and having things well written, but with the LLMs I just discovered that unless your in a very critical domain where performance or maintenability is a hard requirement, the LLMs with bad code just solve the problem and ev…

Everyone, that is, except for the customers dealing with buggy slow products that will eventually be breached and leak their data. And the good developers who now have to hunt for dumb bugs without clues for where to look because the person who generated the code can’t help either.

But good developers can use LLMs to hunt for the dumb bugs ;)

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#87

Post by iamacyborg »

pstrateman wrote: post #16
nativeit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re referring to a different event (having an account suspended or banned) than the parent comment, who’s questioning the notion that one wouldn’t have a subscriber list in a CSV or Google Sheet outside of the account, and/or in the event that a service closes up shop, that they would not extend an effort to allow users to export their data.

It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none. Don't expect them to support a free service they decided to shutdown in anyway.

> It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none.

I strongly disagree. I’ve had the chance to speak with numerous deliverability folks who work at esp’s over the years and they’ve all for the most part been incredibly professional and helpful.

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#88

Post by pwillia7 »

latexr wrote: post #51

> secure and efficient Judging by the fact you generated it with an LLM, the quality of the code, and skimming the videos, I’m highly suspicious of the claim and don’t think you’re basing that assertion on anything defensible. Adding “make the code secure and efficient” to your prompt doesn’t make it so. I fear for the future quality of software products. Quality was already going down the drain and LLMs have the abi…

Quality went down at every step along the abstraction train and look at all we have though. I agree it feels bad but I don't have any examples of abstraction loss of knowledge being a macro negative thing other than maybe Boeing planes right now and I'd argue that's corruption more than abstraction

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#89

Post by pwillia7 »

immibis wrote: post #69
jb1991 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the person prompting the LLM and piecing it all together is still a human author. The LLM is just a tool. The average person cannot sit down and create a project with an LLM, so the human is still a key factor. To say there is no human would be similar to saying those who use Copilot are not authoring their code, when clearly there is a curator/director managing what the AI models produce. Auditing and…

The law disagrees.

It would just depend on what the license for the LLM tool (if any) you're using is I think, right? There are no laws about AI generation and copyright yet that I know about. If what you're suggesting is true then does Microsoft word own everyone's novels and are the originator of patents for the last 20 years? Surely government will do a better job than DMCA even though they're more corrupt and captured now /s

Re: TinyLetter shut down by Mailchimp, so I built the letterdrop

#90

Post by pwillia7 »

ChicagoDave wrote: post #45
Tomte wrote: post #15

MIT license? If it‘s all ML-generated, then there is no human author and therefore no copyright. It‘s in the public domain, isn‘t it?

He said ChatGPT so LLM created. “Fair use” may be the current legal defense, but who knows if or what Congress will do. The lobbying power is definitely in the LLM owners and not copyright holders or creatives. But there’s a non-zero chance LLMs won’t face a class action lawsuit.

What about open source LLM?
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