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Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

arstechnica.com

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#81

Post by MattGaiser »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #76
MattGaiser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Such a system exists. You can publish a book and give it away freely. But few do. This is book communism and fails for the same reasons as regular communism. It is in nobody’s interest to do any hard work. If you don’t reward great effort, virtually nobody provides it." Why does open source / free software exist then? "Nobody puts in hard word if it's not rewarded" hasnt the cURL guy been maintaining cURL/libcurl fo…

Open source covers a very tiny set of use cases for software. How many paid products have an open source competitor at all? How many have a credible competitor (GIMP isn’t a credible alternative to PhotoShop for the people who pay for it for example).

It is far from rendering paid software obsolete.

And not nobody. Virtually nobody. Yes open source exists. Out of the hundreds of devs I have worked with, I know one who meaningfully participates. Say 1 in 100 devs does open source. The other 99 not writing code would lead to a massive fall off in software written.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#83

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

chx wrote: post #27

Oh this appeal to the public, pithy empty words about openness and shit. Here's the plain truth: IA ran a gigantic book piracy site during covid. They should've known they won't get away with it. I remember several authors begging them not to do this because it affected their income. I personally thought it monumentally stupid to put the Wayback Machine at risk. They said, there are enough physical books in closed li…

It hurts but I agree, they fucked up by doing that.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#84

Post by Brian_K_White »

vessenes wrote: post #55
999900000999 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part had to be the whole moral grandstanding they had when doing it. Controlled digital lending was tolerated. It was never legal. I can't buy a bunch of DVDs and start a streaming service even if a each copy can only be watched by a single person at a time. It really sucks since they do a lot of good work aside from this.

Nitpick - I think if your DVD streaming service is free and single-person only, then you probably can - it would qualify under space or time shifting concepts. I don't think you have the right to monetize a DVD you purchase in general in the US, though.

Didn't work for that company that rented you an actual physical individual tv antenna which you accessed remotely.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#85

Post by selestify »

TylerE wrote: post #54
riffic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how the Hacker ethos has shifted from information wants to be free [0] to this sort of predictable HN (the H stands for Hacker doesn't it) reply. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_wants_to_be_free EDIT: looks like the "this is the law" crowd is out in full force on this summer Friday night. All the cool people are doing something else, elsewhere obviously.

It’s somewhat hypocritical to believe otherwise when one’s employment (or if that offends you, the effectiveness of copyleft licenses) depends on the existence of intellectual property. That sort of nuance tends to be lost on the “information wants to be free” crowd.

If society wanted to, it could most certainly choose to allow for the copying of any bits you are in possession of, while also forcing you to distribute additional bits in certain circumstances.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#86

Post by MattGaiser »

r0s wrote: post #37
MattGaiser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Many many authors publish work freely, now more than ever. Without monetary reward. Here's a tiny tip of the massive iceberg https://independentbookreview.com/2020/07/30/10-free-literar...

Evidently not enough for libraries to abandon books from publishers.

If they had the selection and quality people were seeking, people wouldn’t be arguing to kill copyright but rather just pointing people to free equivalents. The Internet Archive would just distribute those alternatives.

When a free equivalent does exist, that is what happens. Nobody is demanding legislation to force Oracle to lower database licence prices. We just use Postgres.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#87

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

adolph wrote: post #78
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

> purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge You don’t get more golden eggs by killing the goose who lays them. Also the IA book UI was terrible.

Is the goose here the publisher? Or the author? If it’s the latter, then would killing the publisher necessarily dictate that the author also must die?

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#88

Post by SequoiaHope »

koolba wrote: post #69
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s pretty clear I am not saying “there outta be a way to give books away” which would be a very stupid thing for me to say. I’m saying we should legalize the giving away of all books, but must rearrange society to ensure authors and all people still have the support the previously got from the existing system. Engaging only with the stupid point I didn’t make is a waste of time honestly and is seriously mis…

> I’m saying we should legalize the giving away of all books, but must rearrange society to ensure authors and all people still have the support the previously got from the existing system. There’s no way to implement this without taking away the freedoms of the author to choose how to distribute the fruits of his labor. Just because you think the world would be a better place if they all did that does not mean it’s…

First of all I’m not saying we should do this just because it’s what I believe. I’m saying we should all actually spend time considering the value of this proposal and make up our own minds. But I’m not looking for knee-jerk responses, there’s too much at stake. We seriously need to consider the implications of the current system which requires vast stores of information that are freely available to be removed from public access.

Second, the only way authors can have this “freedom” you argue for is through vast sweeping government-mandated restrictions on and punishments for the sharing of information. Authors can only have this freedom by taking away the freedom of would-be librarians like IA, and only with massive government interventions. My proposal eliminates the need for government intervention in markets.

And this isn’t strictly some lefty idea either. I’ve really enjoyed this talk by a libertarian capitalist lawyer at the Mises Institute arguing that intellectual property as a concept hampers capitalism. It’s full of a bunch of great arguments and since you seem to be interested in this subject I’d encourage you to check it out!

https://youtu.be/cWShFz4d2RY

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#89

Post by SequoiaHope »

vundercind wrote: post #79
koolba wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m saying we should legalize the giving away of all books, but must rearrange society to ensure authors and all people still have the support the previously got from the existing system. There’s no way to implement this without taking away the freedoms of the author to choose how to distribute the fruits of his labor. Just because you think the world would be a better place if they all did that does not mean it’s…

Curiously libertarian language for supporting a system built on restricting individual freedom.

Agreed. In a sibling comment I just shared this lecture by a libertarian capitalist at the Mises institute arguing that intellectual property restrictions hamper capitalism.

https://youtu.be/cWShFz4d2RY

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#90

Post by slothtrop »

r0s wrote: post #37
MattGaiser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Many many authors publish work freely, now more than ever. Without monetary reward. Here's a tiny tip of the massive iceberg https://independentbookreview.com/2020/07/30/10-free-literar...

Many is not a number.
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