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Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

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Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#81

Post by shadowgovt »

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

I think this is true.

Unfortunately, the trade-off is that it compromises scaling. Are we happier with the universe where the way it works is that you get customer service but after a million users the next person to try and log on to Meta sees "sorry, we are at capacity for the amount of customer service we can provide, no account for you?"

It will lead to a bifurcated internet where you can't use the services your neighbor is using just because they are at capacity.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#82

Post by wmf »

int_19h wrote: post #73
robotnikman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a very secure way if it requires you to appear in person at court and provide documents proving you are who you say you are. For requests of account ownership transfer or resets, I would say this is probably the best way to go about it, as it basically prevents people operating in other countries from having a chance at taking over your account remotely by playing customer service reps, and greatly raises th…

But, conversely, it also means that people in other countries who have genuinely lost access to their account have no recourse.

They should go to court in that country.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#83

Post by MatthiasPortzel »

I’m young enough that I never had reason to create a Facebook account (my friends never socialized on it), until a couple days ago—I wanted to buy something on Facebook marketplace. I thought, this is how Facebook stays relevant while creating my account. Of course, in order to prove me wrong, my account was instantly suspended. I was asked to provide a verification selfie, which I did, but I haven’t heard back.

It’s amusing in a depressing way that these anti-bot measures hit so many people.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#84

Post by hackerlight »

nradov wrote: post #51
kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

How has this been proven wrong? Meta is enormously profitable despite this tiny number of small claims lawsuits. If anything they have proven that customer service is a waste of money.

They relied on the taxpayer to fund their de facto customer service. It's like aged care homes overusing a public ambulance service instead of hiring an on-call doctor or nurse. Or shops not hiring security and overusing police resources.

Public services are there to be used, but there's a line that gets regularly crossed by profit-seeking entities who do not optimize for public good and see public resources as something to be used up as much as possible as long as they can save a dollar.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#85

Post by exe34 »

mathgradthrow wrote: post #79
exe34 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't buy them!

the idea is that you need to buy something to figure out if it works most of the time. What you are saying us that your preferred society is one in which you are not allowed to determine if something works before you buy it.

no, I'm saying I believe in the free market. buy a product that meets your requirements. if you find it doesn't, return it for a refund. do a chargeback if they won't do a refund. you are entitled to a refund within 14 days.

https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:tex...

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#86

Post by whimsicalism »

int_19h wrote: post #65
whimsicalism wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m pretty partial to the idea that this is not somewhere government needs to be involved

On the contrary, ensuring fair trading practices is precisely the area where government needs to be most actively involved in economic matters. What is the downside of clamping down on borderline fraud, exactly?

i’m not even sure what a warranty for a social media account even means

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#87

Post by wmf »

fragmede wrote: post #26
jeremyjh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it may need to cost more than $100. They would need a notary to validate your identity or something like that.

It doesn't cost $100 to go to a notary and validate your identity.

You'd pay the notary and then you'd also pay Meta.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#88

Post by gumby »

stephenlindauer wrote: post #6
gumby wrote: post #3

Sounds like dealing with these suits and various AsG is still cheaper than building a support organization.

Until hopefully this becomes more common and more people win suits like this. Then maybe Meta will finally fix their problems.

You have to go to the county courthouse to sue. Even if meta lost all of them they’d be fine because only a negligible percentage of their users can avail themselves of this process. In fact they can save money by not even showing up, and just paying a single person to read the courts judgement and restore the account.

Actually, now I realise this is optimal for FB. They want to kick paedos and contract killers off the platform. Or maybe they are cool with the CK community but know that governments are not, so if their algo declares even the slightest chance you’re a CK they boot you off — they already have lots of users. You object because you’re not a CK, or you are and want to swap tips and inside jokes with other members of the community, so you sue and win.

Now, when you get fingered for a killing you negotiated on the platform, FB can say, “hey, the courts made us let stephenlindauer back on.”

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#89

Post by nradov »

kube-system wrote: post #66
nradov wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has this been proven wrong? Meta is enormously profitable despite this tiny number of small claims lawsuits. If anything they have proven that customer service is a waste of money.

I never said they weren't profitable. I said they haven't fixed the problem with automation. They halfway fixed the problem, and ignored the hard part.

Why do you think they care about fixing the problem? Maybe they don't even consider it problem.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#90

Post by photonthug »

nradov wrote: post #57
photonthug wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to actually say what is probably obvious.. this means that corporations have found a way to outsource the costs of providing customer support to the tax paying general public, including those who are not even using their services and never heard of the company. Ag’s should not be requesting that this is fixed, but requiring it in no uncertain terms, and giving out massive penalties for every single time it’s all…

AGs aren't dictators. They have no direct power to levy penalties. Which specific law do you think Meta is breaking here? Please to provide an exact citation.

IANAL, but let's be real, it's essentially a DoS attack, which the Facebooks and Comcasts of the world have enthusiastically and successfully prosecuted in the past. In a perfect world, we would just replay any abuse-of-service lawsuit that they won in this area back against them. Without even invoking cybercrime, a quick search says that DoS against private interests has apparently been prosecuted under chattel trespass and ToS violations, etc. I would think the government can take care of itself at least as well as private corporations when it's roused to anger.

Honestly though, public outrage alone may be enough to decide the case, since at the highest levels judges seem to ignore precedent and do whatever they want anyway. This isn't a low-level patent-troll making a living off a little light abuse of the system, these are billion dollar companies that are not only screwing people, but then getting us to pay for downstream effects as well.

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