Are there ways to circumvent this? Selfhosting? Encryption before sending?
I self-host a standard XMPP server for my family. Let's see how long it takes before this is illegal too.
EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
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Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#82I'm not specifically talking about tfa, but I defo feel less enthused about net neutrality and such these days.. For a few reasons.
1. Internet is bad now
In the 80's a new and truly utopian vision of personal computers, the internet, the web, was actually realised. But since then it's been taken over by monster corporations, the net has simply gone through the same process as systems before it (telegraph, telephone, TV) as described in "The Master Switch" by Tim Wu. In reality, for most users in 2024 it's no longer a utopian freeing force, its the opposite, a completely locked down system governed by utterly ruthless and reckless megacorps.
2. Internet is harmful
There's loads of data appearing about the negative health effects of social media, screentime, etc.
3. Geopolitics
The era of the peace dividend seems to be drawing to a close, and a new era of great power struggles beginning. Western democracies vs Autocracies (China, Russia, Iran, North Korea) It seems the autocratic countries are taking advantage of the weakness of the open net of the west, and using it to spread chaos and discord and destroy them from the inside. Stuff like the "Internet research Agency".
Having the internet restricted by relatively trustworthy regulators like the EU, seems preferable to me to letting megacorps dominate and abuse it, causing harm for profit, or to let autocracies use it to sow chaos. I actually think it'd be a good idea nowadays to ban social media tbh.
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's Switzerland's stance on this (message scanning)? From what I have seen this entire topic keeps coming up in the US, the UK and some European countries and is just impossible to keep dead, because some citizens are strongly lobbying in favor of it.
The answer is to play the game, pay the piper, and lobby against it.
I'm not sure if this can work long term unless some fundamentals change. A lot of victims of CSEM will keep that topic alive. It's rather unpopular to stand against this given that "live with it" is sort of the only alternative.
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#84Another day I'm happy my country (Switzerland) respects its citizens wishes to not join EU
Well it's not a "wish", we voted for it.
Considering the current relationship between the Federal Council and the EU, I don't think it would be close this time around.
Edit: Actually there was a votation for adhesion to the European Economic Area in 1992, but also for full adhesion to the EU in 2001 (rejected at 76.8%). Switzerland is not even close to become a member state.
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#85Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The loop is intentional though. You need political will to pass laws like these so you have to create crises for it. But as you say its a self sustaining cycle and the end result will be fully automated repression. The old arguments of "Oh well the policemen have families too" will go away once drones can enforce your dictatorship
> The loop is intentional though Of course, but it's also a consequence of being rich countries. Nobody wants to actually be a cop anymore, after studying for years to get a degree and finally get a cop's salary, and I understand them. The good news is that unless you are Japanese living in a dystopian anime, automated (kawaiiii) drone repression will never work in practice. https://theglorioblog.com/wp-content/uploa…
Shame, I would have enjoyed the kawaii look more than the DJI suicide drone look
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#87Another day I'm happy my country (Switzerland) respects its citizens wishes to not join EU
What's Switzerland's stance on this (message scanning)? From what I have seen this entire topic keeps coming up in the US, the UK and some European countries and is just impossible to keep dead, because some citizens are strongly lobbying in favor of it.
It's easier to run a country when it is holding all the drug cartel and dictator money of the planet. You do not have to steal from your citizens as much.
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
they often strife to abolish the EU, which is highly desirable for every citizen
Brexit proves you wrong. And so does practically any poll in any EU country, as well as many non-EU countries where people are desperate to get in (be it in the Western Balkans or the Caucasus).
Those who get money want in, obviously. I was referring to those paying for the party (ie Germany)
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#89Are there ways to circumvent this? Selfhosting? Encryption before sending?
I self-host a standard XMPP server for my family. Let's see how long it takes before this is illegal too.
At the end, it could be a OS-based scanning, so no matter if the message is encrypted in transit, or self-hosted, then if the message is displayed it could be transmitted and scanned.
Nobody wants terrorists, right ?
Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphere of life at least. I foresee however, a digital ID that will be tied to all your essential services, that you will be required to have in order to live, and that's the tracking and communication point that will be used to get a hold of you. Kind of like the c…
> but in the EU of tomorrow, your digital EU idea will be the choking point. Do something out of line, and it can be revoked and with it, your bank, credit cards, health care, travel and other services. I won't say that future will never happen only because "never" is a long time, but that's not happening in the foreseeable future. I'm in Germany right now, and theoretically my ID card can be used online. In practice…
Germany is a lot less digital than the rest of Europe though. Germans by-and-large even refuse to use debit cards (pin&chip). It's so strange visiting Germany as a tourist and not being able to pay with my card in a restaurant for example.