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North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

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Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#81
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is doing a good job why wouldn’t we want to keep them around? If a 30 year old is elected to congress I don’t see why they couldn’t serve for 40 years if they are competent.

You would. Congressional politics is closer to a complex game than a cognitive exercise. A game that is only learned and won with experience.

> Congressional politics is closer to a complex game than a cognitive exercise. A game that is only learned and won with experience.

None of that means the game actually accomplishes what government is supposed to accomplish. The actual result of the game is a huge bloated bureaucratic government that (a) does a poor job of what it is supposed to be doing, protecting everyone's basic rights, and (b) also does a poor job at all the other stuff that gets piled on top by legislators looking to make a mark and get re-elected and having to pander to special interests to do it.

As the saying goes: if it isn't worth doing, it isn't worth doing well.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#82

Pointless law as the Supreme Court has ruled that states cannot add qualifications for national office beyond those in the Constitution.

This is not really something written in the constitution, just something that the justices vividly hallucinated into existence in 95. If it actually comes up again, it'll probably be overturned.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#83

Personally I think it’s more important to increase the voting age than to prevent elderly candidates. Democracy is only as good as the participants. And the human brain does not mature until closer to 30. That’s also when people have gone through more of life’s big steps and can have better perspective on the world to make better decisions. I simply don’t understand the push from some to lower the age, as it will res…

The voting age used to be 21 in the US and people got mad after being repeatedly drafted into pointless wars by congress. If you're going to die in vietnam or a random hole in europe, at least you can vote on it now.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the Constitution might be bad?

There are several mechanisms to amend it.

Amend?

Benjiman Franklin was strongly vociferous on the constituition being barely sufficient until a despot showed up and trashed it.

Might be time for a rethink and reset of the election methods, terms, supreme court lifetime appointments, corporations as citizens, allowing lobbying, actually imprisoning | significantly firing corruption in politics, stronger seperation of arms of government, etc.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#86
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several mechanisms to amend it.

Amend? Benjiman Franklin was strongly vociferous on the constituition being barely sufficient until a despot showed up and trashed it. Might be time for a rethink and reset of the election methods, terms, supreme court lifetime appointments, corporations as citizens, allowing lobbying, actually imprisoning | significantly firing corruption in politics, stronger seperation of arms of government, etc.

All that sounds like a great opportunity for a movement to get usurped by a dictator. That many huge changes all at once.

The US has been going strong for nearly 250 years with the same form of government. Who has gone longer? (Leaving out a few microstates and such). Ben Franklin was wrong.

Which isn’t to say we don’t need some change. To be honest most of what we need is better candidates and people more interested in subtlety and honest disagreements.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amend? Benjiman Franklin was strongly vociferous on the constituition being barely sufficient until a despot showed up and trashed it. Might be time for a rethink and reset of the election methods, terms, supreme court lifetime appointments, corporations as citizens, allowing lobbying, actually imprisoning | significantly firing corruption in politics, stronger seperation of arms of government, etc.

All that sounds like a great opportunity for a movement to get usurped by a dictator. That many huge changes all at once. The US has been going strong for nearly 250 years with the same form of government. Who has gone longer? (Leaving out a few microstates and such). Ben Franklin was wrong. Which isn’t to say we don’t need some change. To be honest most of what we need is better candidates and people more interested…

> All that sounds like a great opportunity for a movement to get usurped by a dictator.

The US is close to that already without having to change from its rut.

> To be honest most of what we need is better candidates and people more interested in subtlety and honest disagreements.

Agreed.

However it's baked into the antiquated US system to devolve into two party system that doesn't represent the people at large and are essentially two sides of the same coin (or at least until recently when the circuit breaker has been a lurch toward despotism).

Ironic given the founders mostly didn't even like party politics, but that's the inevitable grind of iterated discrete dynamic systems for you.

Older isn't better just by virtue of age, the US got some good ideas from the French and the native american people and then stagnated, meanwhile the UK continued to evolve, countries like Australia adopted "Washminster" system that built on the strengths of two prior systems, etc.

There are systemic reasons why the US has such a limited choice for President, it's a problem that who leads as #1 is even a big deal, it's just a little king for four years which was the problem with George back in the day.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#88
post #85

Good. The world can’t afford to be run by gerontocracy…

Just wondering... If this was for president, Biden would be ineligible, but Trump would be eligible. what if in a century most people lived to 150?

Given how many people are struggling to find enthusiasm to voice support for Biden due to the situation in Gaza and how he isn’t trying to play hardball with Netanyahu in comparison to the hardball Reagan played back in the day… there is a lot of negative sentiment for Biden due to his age and intransigence on many issues… from the outside looking in (I’m in Australia, so I don’t have a vote in this, I just care about the foreign policy implications) … the situation in the upcoming election is very much looking like a lot of people view it as “narcissistic nut job who seems extremely keen on fascism” and “old politician who might be getting just a little bit senile from time to time… but is also not doing enough to try and stop a genocide” … oh and and throwing your vote out for a third party candidate who literally had brain worms

This isn’t an inspiring group… I expect a non trivial percentage of Biden voters are literally just going to the polls thinking ”he’s the least worst of these people and the others would be so insanely worse that it’s my duty to vote for this guy to make sure the people who believe in the other guys don’t destroy my country”

A mandatory age limit (which remember is enshrined at the other end, we have precedent for someone being too young for the office of president) would force the Democratic Party to nominate a different candidate, who Biden would be obliged to support out of party loyalty since he is being forced to retire due to the age limit, and we might see a less “Passive” Democrat campaign that would be holding the other candidates to the fire on their various problems, from brain worms and heavy metal poisoning to dozens of felony charges and a felony conviction pending the obvious appeal after sentencing…

As for the future when people might live longer…

again from the outside… I’d like the USA to be less dominant because the monopolar world has been a destabilising influence that has slowly allowed US based business interests to corrupt the governments of allied countries and pressure long term changes that have had devastating effects like the current NHS situation in the UK, and the various small countries whose governments have lived and died at the whim of US foreign policy due. While broadly speaking in the long long term the USA has been a good steward of its global power… it has been at its best when it was competitive against other global powers and not sitting on some global throne of power just deciding who gets aid funding or pressuring for treaties like the TPP which have deeply pro business anti consumer political protections built into their bones…

why the big preamble? Well in the long long term i imagine that by the time a healthy person is fit enough to run a global power at the age of 125 (extrapolating from the current age relative to the 80 year cutoff in question) i imagine we’re going to be in the situation where smaller powers have significantly asymmetrical influence… if space travel and eventual efforts at colonisation succeed… eventually they will assert sovereignty due to the classic cycle of colonial development… either the colonising power expands fast enough to maintain their control over the colony or the colony being at a distance (be that economic, logistical, political, or something else) the colony will eventually drift away from the parent developing its own identity and want independence… if we have lunar, asteroid or mars colonies… I don’t see how a lunar colony with enough mass drivers already built for cargo and logistics reasons… couldn’t make any government on earth sit the fuck down and grant them independence… the relative merits of that independence movement are for the future to decide as it’s entirely hypothetical… but my point is that the world will be different… and if the world is different and things have changed, maybe you could just change the damn law and update the age… it seems so obvious you would just raise the age if there was sufficient political support.

And thank you for anyone who followed my rambling short sci fi thread to its blunt and obvious almost non-sequitur ending, I hope it was at least a mildly entertaining read.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#89
This fails to address 2 concerns:

1. Term limits are how to avoid career politicians.

2. Numerical age is unimportant compared to the health and fitness of an individual, and the agility of their mind. This throws away perfectly competent and capable candidates with explicit ageism.

Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates

#90
post #5

This is so weird, because you could also just not elect them.

Do you also find the two term limit for presidents weird then?

Term limits are excellent because they avoid career politicians getting too comfortable and corrupt. It has nothing to do with age.
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