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FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

nytimes.com

81–90 of 267 posts

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#81
post #3

How the fuck do you counterfeit titanium it’s one of those things that is either or it’s not.

What is it with SWE's and binary thinking? No, titanium and any metal alloy is a huge spectrum of materials. There are thousands of steels, aluminums and so on.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#82
post #36

A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 The accident wasn't total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.

To belabor the point and repeat a bit from Wikipedia, this was bar-none the absolute perfect flight crew possible. A flight crew with over 65000 hours experience and, riding as a passenger, a training pilot with a further 23000 who had specifically practiced this exact failure (total loss of hydraulics) after a lost craft four years prior.

For further reading, https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fields-of-fortune-the-cr...

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#83
post #36

A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 The accident wasn't total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.

That's quite an impressive story. Also with quite a lot about how hard it is to use titanium properly.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#84
post #45

> Spirit is trying to determine where the titanium came from, whether it meets proper standards despite its phony documentation, and whether the parts made from the material are structurally sound enough to hold up through the projected life spans of the jets, company officials said. Spirit said it was trying to determine the most efficient way to remove and replace the affected parts if that ended up being necessary…

It's not exactly counterfeit parts. It's that the paperwork for the titanium supplied wasn't right. So I guess it could be ok titanium with just bad paperwork rather than bad titanium. Also I guess it costs a lot to change.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#87
post #36

A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 The accident wasn't total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.

To belabor the point and repeat a bit from Wikipedia, this was bar-none the absolute perfect flight crew possible. A flight crew with over 65000 hours experience and, riding as a passenger, a training pilot with a further 23000 who had specifically practiced this exact failure (total loss of hydraulics) after a lost craft four years prior. For further reading, https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fields-of-fortune-the…

Reminds me of the Gimli Glider, and the incredible coincidence of having an experienced glider pilot as the Captain of that flight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#88
post #36

A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 The accident wasn't total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.

To belabor the point and repeat a bit from Wikipedia, this was bar-none the absolute perfect flight crew possible. A flight crew with over 65000 hours experience and, riding as a passenger, a training pilot with a further 23000 who had specifically practiced this exact failure (total loss of hydraulics) after a lost craft four years prior. For further reading, https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fields-of-fortune-the…

This blurb from the wiki stood out to me

  Despite the fatalities, the accident is considered a good example of successful crew resource management. A majority of those aboard survived; experienced test pilots in simulators were unable to reproduce a survivable landing. It has been termed "The Impossible Landing" as it is considered one of the most impressive landings ever performed in the history of aviation.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#89
post #3

How the fuck do you counterfeit titanium it’s one of those things that is either or it’s not.

When you hear 'Titanium' mentioned in an engineering sense, rarely is this a reference to elemental titanium alone; structures use alloys of titanium which means small percentages of other metals are added (aluminum and vanadium for example are the two principle alloying metals in Grade 5 titanium, 6AL4V, probably the most common in aerosapce applications), and then the wrought products are even further processed thr…

In addition to the actual alloy the paperwork could cover x-ray inspection for defects.

Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

#90
post #84
post #45

> Spirit is trying to determine where the titanium came from, whether it meets proper standards despite its phony documentation, and whether the parts made from the material are structurally sound enough to hold up through the projected life spans of the jets, company officials said. Spirit said it was trying to determine the most efficient way to remove and replace the affected parts if that ended up being necessary…

It's not exactly counterfeit parts. It's that the paperwork for the titanium supplied wasn't right. So I guess it could be ok titanium with just bad paperwork rather than bad titanium. Also I guess it costs a lot to change.

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