These puzzles are fun and challenging in the same way that puzzles from video games like The Witness and Baba Is You are.
I bet you could use those puzzles as benchmarks as well.
ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
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Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#82What is the fundamental difference between ARC and a standard IQ test? On the surface they seem similar in that they both involve deducing and generalizing visual patterns. Is there something special about these questions that makes them resistant to memorization? Or is it more just the fact that there are 100 secret tasks?
I’ve always found this kind of puzzle infuriating because it’s way underspecified. You’re not trying to find a pattern, you’re trying to guess what pattern the test writer would expect.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
>: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs well, maybe. We view things in three dimensions at high fidelity: viewing a single dog or cat actually ends up being thousands of training samples, no?
Eh, still doesn’t hold up. I really don’t think there’s many psychologists working on the posited mechanism of simple NN-like backprop learning. Aka conditioning, I guess. As Chomsky reminds us every time we let him: human children learn to understand and use language — an incredibly complex and nuanced domain, to say the least — with shockingly little data and often zero-to-none intentional instruction. We definitel…
> Chomsky reminds us every time we let him: human children learn to understand and use language — an incredibly complex and nuanced domain, to say the least — with shockingly little data and often zero-to-none intentional instruction.
Chomsky's arguments about "poverty of the stimulus" rely on using non-probabistic grammars. Norvig discusses this here: https://norvig.com/chomsky.html
> In 1967, Gold's Theorem showed some theoretical limitations of logical deduction on formal mathematical languages. But this result has nothing to do with the task faced by learners of natural language. In any event, by 1969 we knew that probabilistic inference (over probabilistic context-free grammars) is not subject to those limitations (Horning showed that learning of PCFGs is possible).
If I recall correctly, human toddlers hear about 3-13 million spoken words per year, and the higher ranges are correlated with better performance in school. Which:
- Is a lot, in an absolute sense.
- But is still much less training data than LLMs require.
Adult learners moving between English and romance languages can get a pretty decent grasp of the language (C1 or C2 reading ability) with about 3 million words of reading. Which is obviously exploiting transfer learning and prior knowledge, because it's harder in a less related language.
So yeah, humans are impressive. But Chomsky doesn't really seem to have the theoretical toolkit to deal with probabilistic or statistical learning. And LLMs are closer to statistical learning than to Chomsky's formal models.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#84What kind of "bigger labs" have attempted it and how much was their training budget?
It's rather surprising to me that neural nets that can learn to win at Go or Chess can't learn to solve these sorts of tasks. Intuitively would have expected that using a framework generating thousands of playground tasks similar to the public training tasks, a reinforcement learning solution would have been able to do far better than the actual SOTA. Of course the training budget for this could very well be higher than the actual ARC-AGI prize amount...
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#85AGI won't struggle with colors like some of us then.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#86This is super cool. I share Francois' intuition that the presently data-hungry learning paradigm is not only not generalizable but unsustainable: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, and the main reason computers can today is because we have millions of examples. As a result, it may be hard to transfer knowledge to more esoteric domains where data is expensive, rare, and ha…
> humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, I swear, not enough people have kids. Now, is it 10k examples? No, but I think it was on the order of hundreds, if not thousands. One thing kids do is they'll ask for confirmation of their guess. You'll be reading a book you've read 50 times before and the kid will stop you, point at a dog in the book, and ask "dog?" And there is a dev…
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Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#87This is super cool. I share Francois' intuition that the presently data-hungry learning paradigm is not only not generalizable but unsustainable: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, and the main reason computers can today is because we have millions of examples. As a result, it may be hard to transfer knowledge to more esoteric domains where data is expensive, rare, and ha…
Do computers need 10,000 examples to distinguish dogs from cats when pretrained on other tasks?
No.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#88So, this is a good idea. Having opinions about what AGI benchmarks should look like is a great way to argue about the kind of technology we want to build for the future.
However, why are the 100 test tasks secret? I don't understand why how resisting “memorization” techniques requires it. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, I swear, not enough people have kids. Now, is it 10k examples? No, but I think it was on the order of hundreds, if not thousands. One thing kids do is they'll ask for confirmation of their guess. You'll be reading a book you've read 50 times before and the kid will stop you, point at a dog in the book, and ask "dog?" And there is a dev…
> Now, is it 10k examples? No, but I think it was on the order of hundreds, if not thousands. I have kids so I'm presuming I'm allowed to have an opinion here. This is ignoring the fact that babies are not just learning labels, they're learning the whole of language, motion planning, sensory processing, etc. Once they have the basics down concept acquisition time shrinks rapidly and kids can easily learn their new fa…
Two other points - I've also forgotten a bunch, but also know I could "relearn" it faster than the first time around.
To continue your example, I know I've learned calculus and was lauded at the time. Now I could only give you the vagaries, nothing practical. However I know if I was pressed, I could learn it again in short order.
Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress
#90So, this is a good idea. Having opinions about what AGI benchmarks should look like is a great way to argue about the kind of technology we want to build for the future. However, why are the 100 test tasks secret? I don't understand why how resisting “memorization” techniques requires it. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
If the tasks were public then it would be trivial to have a human figure out the answers, and then to train an LLM to memorise those answers.