Show HN: Recruit web developers by having them build a web app

I, somewhat cynically, divide job seekers into four categories:

1) the qualified (I know what I can do, and I can do what you need)

2) the unqualified (I know what I can do, but I can't do what you need)

3) the deluded (I honestly think I'm qualified, but I'm not)

4) the liars (I'm trying to get the job by any mean necessary).

I only want (1).

(2) are easy to deal with - you just have to know what you need.

(3) are common and mildly annoying - especially if you're a nice person and feel the need to explain where they are deluded :-)

(4) are not common - but are exceptionally annoying and often hard to sort out

Writing a really good job spec / advert will get rid of most of (2) for you, and help remove all but the most deluded from (3).

Filtering resultant CVs will usually get rid of the rest of (2), and a bit more of (3).

A quick chat on the phone will get rid of any remaining (2) and a big chunk of (3).

Simple tests similar to FizzBuzz will cull a surprising amount of (3) and (4).

Interviewing - especially good accomplishment based questions will tend to filter out all of (3) and a big chunk of (4).

Which, unfortunately, occasionally leaves some of (4) who seem to sometimes put more effort into deceiving me than it would take to actually learn the damn skills in the first place. Which is why I really like having some kind of solid work "with the team" session for at least a couple of hours. Pay 'em for it too if at all possible.

Not every work place produces open source code and not everyone wants to spend their limited spare time 'working', but I cant think of better advice for eager job seekers / students / graduates to look for open source projects to contribute to.

(of course it isnt the only reason, making software you love, with awesome people, and making the world a better place arent to be ignored)

Companies requiring this sort of project work should be aware it smells funny to the applicant and the only way to tell if the applicant did the work him/herself is a tear-down / code defence.

You have not saved any effort from the hire process - only tested if I am willing to jump through a hoop and made me question the company.

When I hear talk like this coming from devs in a given startup, it only confirms that their work culture is terrible. It doesn't make me think their devs are bad. It's more of the "rock star" and "ninja" wishlist stuff. No company-- not even Google, Apple, or Facebook-- is going to employ only developers who are all at the top of their field. If you're a startup, you must have a pathway to get your average programmers to greatness.

When I hear stuff like "hand-holding" it makes me think of companies that hire based on keyword matching. They don't want to put anything at all into their employees, they just want the best output right away. No wonder these firms are always complaining about not being able to hire talent. They could develop talent, but they don't-- it's either getting the creme of the crop engineers (which they're not going to be able to get anyway since they can't compete with the above-mentioned companies on salary and benefits) or nothing!

The really creative startups I'm seeing now are those that train. They know there's a war for talent, so they're willing to invest in somebody who isn't a rock star today, but has potential and very well may be tomorrow.